ESPN: Draft Special - Anyone See It?

[Jeff]

I was at a restaurant, but they had a bunch of stuff on Reggie Bush and the Texans and interviewed Casserly. Just wondering if anyone had a recap.

[rikesh316]

CC basically said that they haven't made their decision on who to draft. They are open to trading it and have had talks with teams. He said if they do trade, they will go down only a few spots. The most interesting part of the interview was when he said they hadn't made the decision between Reggie Bush and Mario Williams not Vince Young.

[Harrisment]

Was this on sportscenter or was it a show called Espn Draft Special? Just wondering what I should look for to try and Tivo a repeat.

[nWo34Life]

Was this on sportscenter or was it a show called Espn Draft Special? Just wondering what I should look for to try and Tivo a repeat.

It was on ESPN called ESPN Draft Special. It was on from 6:30-8:00. They are either airing a repeat or continuing the special Thursday night, the same time.

[Jeff]

There is a repeat on tonight at like 3am.

[ima_drummer2k]

Eh, you didn't miss much. Casserly just gave the typical PR type answers to the questions they asked him, which is exactly what he's supposed to do. Nobody wants to tip their hand on national TV.

They asked him if we were going to draft Bush and he said he's not sure, but of course we all know they are. He did say that if we trade down, he wouldn't want to trade below the 5th pick.

They had one spot devoted to the "cons" of VY as an NFL QB. I kind of figured there would already be a 10 page thread dedicated to that spot by the time I logged on tonight. ;)

[texanskan]

I saw it there is a 99% chance they take bush and I'm cool with that.

I am more intrested in the first pick of round two and the first two picks of round three and the first pick of round four.

This draft will make or break our franchise over the next five to ten years.

I am pumped up!

[jopatmc]

CC basically said that they haven't made their decision on who to draft. They are open to trading it and have had talks with teams. He said if they do trade, they will go down only a few spots. The most interesting part of the interview was when he said they hadn't made the decision between Reggie Bush and Mario Williams not Vince Young.


LOL, ROFL

Bush or Mario. See, they're posturing. He's trying to get a bidding war going for that pick.

[mateo]

Dude, I am really worried about you. You're the last survivor of the Vince Young True Believer Camp.

I'm afraid that when the Texans dont:

1) Draft Vince
2) Trade down for Vince

you will go postal.

Hope is a good thing but sooner or later you gotta see the light. Vince isn't playing for the Texans next year. Just hope he gets drafted by a cool franchise (read: not Bud's) and that he has a great career.

Don't worry, Reggie will grow on ya.

[Groogrux]

Dude, I am really worried about you. You're the last survivor of the Vince Young True Believer Camp.

I'm afraid that when the Texans dont:

1) Draft Vince
2) Trade down for Vince

you will go postal.

Hope is a good thing but sooner or later you gotta see the light. Vince isn't playing for the Texans next year. Just hope he gets drafted by a cool franchise (read: not Bud's) and that he has a great career.

Don't worry, Reggie will grow on ya.

Uh, who are you talking to?

[jopatmc]

I would like to have VY, no doubt. I think he is going to be the primo player in this league for many years. He has that charisma and leadership that all the greats have. But I am prepared for the reality of not getting him. I'll take Bush. He will be a great player too. He just won't have quite as much impact on his team as Young will have on his team because of the positions they play and the ability of VY to make those around him much better, the ability to get them to outperform.

But, I do think the Texans and Casserly are trying to get a bidding war going for the pick. Young or no Young, I think if they got a Walker-Williams type trade, they would take it.

[Harrisment]

Uh, who are you talking to?

I was wondering the same thing. :confused:

[brentdapmp]

I watched the show last night and for the second could not believe what the hell was coming out of Merril Hodge's mouth. About a month ago I watched him talk about the draft on one of the ESPN shows and he says that he doesn't believe Vince is a first DAY pick as a QB. He said he thinks Vince should be picked in the 4th or 5th round. Yesterday he comes out and says NONE of the QB's except maybe for Jay Cutler are worthy of being selected in the first round. I don't understand this guy's logic.

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't understand this guy's logic.
Nobody does. 27 concussions will do that to a guy.

[Dubious]

You talking to me? You talking to me?

http://www.onpointradio.org/content/2003/08/22/0822taxi140.jpg

Yeah I'm the last Vince-o-maniac hold out. If you can create your own delusions you can live in a perfect world.

If you look at the fate of of a lot of the fist round QB draft picks of late then you can make an argument that their hit or miss nature makes them too risky to pick early. Leaf, Shuler, Harrington, even Carr and Smith. You could have picked a QB in the 4th round and done about as well.

[VooDooPope]

Yeah I'm the last Vince-o-maniac hold out. If you can create your own delusions you can live in a perfect world.

I'm still holding out hope.

[rrj_gamz]

I watched the show last night and for the second could not believe what the hell was coming out of Merril Hodge's mouth. About a month ago I watched him talk about the draft on one of the ESPN shows and he says that he doesn't believe Vince is a first DAY pick as a QB. He said he thinks Vince should be picked in the 4th or 5th round. Yesterday he comes out and says NONE of the QB's except maybe for Jay Cutler are worthy of being selected in the first round. I don't understand this guy's logic.

Agreed...Is Vince Young perfect, no, but the upside is worthy of a Top 5 pick...I firmly believe he will be great in this league...Maybe not next year, but in the long run, ala Air McNair...

[pgabriel]

mario williams is not so outlandish. a great de can anchor your entire defense for years.

[Jeff]

I think Voltaire could write volumes on "The Great Vince Young vs. Reggie Bush Debate of Two Thousand and Six."

[msn]

I think Voltaire could write volumes on "The Great Vince Young vs. Reggie Bush Debate of Two Thousand and Six."
Draft day can't come soon enough. This has been the longest, stupidest, most irritating offseason in sports history.

[ima_drummer2k]

I watched the show last night and for the second could not believe what the hell was coming out of Merril Hodge's mouth. About a month ago I watched him talk about the draft on one of the ESPN shows and he says that he doesn't believe Vince is a first DAY pick as a QB. He said he thinks Vince should be picked in the 4th or 5th round. Yesterday he comes out and says NONE of the QB's except maybe for Jay Cutler are worthy of being selected in the first round. I don't understand this guy's logic.
Well, you are now talking about him and his opinion.

Mission Accomplished.

[Desert Scar]

You talking to me? You talking to me?
If you look at the fate of of a lot of the fist round QB draft picks of late then you can make an argument that their hit or miss nature makes them too risky to pick early. Leaf, Shuler, Harrington, even Carr and Smith. You could have picked a QB in the 4th round and done about as well.

This is largely a fallacy, this is the case for every position, every prospect. From Ki-Jana Carter to Blair Thomas to Tony Mandarich to Robert Gallery to Courtney Brown to Dan Wilkerson--there is no such thing impact NFL player. Bush isn't a sure fire NFL impact player, VY isn't, and ML are not either.

Dude, I am really worried about you. You're the last survivor of the Vince Young True Believer Camp.

I'm afraid that when the Texans dont:

1) Draft Vince
2) Trade down for Vince

you will go postal.

Hope is a good thing but sooner or later you gotta see the light. Vince isn't playing for the Texans next year. Just hope he gets drafted by a cool franchise (read: not Bud's) and that he has a great career.

Don't worry, Reggie will grow on ya.

I know this isn't directed at me but it isn't helpfull. Due to a variety of reasons--foremost the potenital of guys like Bush and Williams but also including David Carr and his contract--it is all but clear the Texans won't take a QB, VY or otherwise.

But whether VY or RB or someone else will be the best player in this draft won't be answered for a long time. This is the meat of the debate--who will be the best and who should (not will) the Texans draft. I wouldn't bet against VY, the Texans think another direction is better, history will tell.

[pgabriel]

this debate isn't ending on draft day, get used to it.

[msn]

this debate isn't ending on draft day, get used to it.
You're right, there is no end to bitching and moaning. You can't fathom how old it gets, though. I'm not in either camp, btw; I just want everyone to shut up.

[brentdapmp]

You're right, there is no end to bitching and moaning. You can't fathom how old it gets, though. I'm not in either camp, btw; I just want everyone to shut up.

Well I sit in a office all day working on a computer listening to sports talk radio and I can't agree with you more. It was old after the first week, and hearing matress Mac on 610 this morning made me shut my radio off.

[Buck Turgidson]

hearing matress Mac on 610 this morning made me shut my radio off.
That was so freakin painful to listen to.

[mateo]

Uh, who are you talking to?

jopatmc has a lot of theories about the Texans trading down to #4 and picking Young. I just dont see it.

And Desert Scar, I am not betting against VY as a NFL player. I seriously doubt the Texans are manuevering to pick Vince in the first round. I wouldn't just be shocked, I would freaking faint.

And then I would buy my Young jersey.

[gucci888]

Eh, you didn't miss much. Casserly just gave the typical PR type answers to the questions they asked him, which is exactly what he's supposed to do. Nobody wants to tip their hand on national TV.

They asked him if we were going to draft Bush and he said he's not sure, but of course we all know they are. He did say that if we trade down, he wouldn't want to trade below the 5th pick.



He didn't say specifcially that he didn't want to trade below the 5th IIRC, but he did mention that there were a group of players that he felt could have an immediate impact on the team.

Interesting point he made was that they have already told what they want for the #1 pick to the teams below them.

I'm still hoping for a big offer to come from the Jets or someone. Something like #1 for #4 + #29 + #35. :)

[reggietodd]

hearing matress Mac on 610 this morning made me shut my radio off.

oh dear god. I'm shocked to see that there isn't a thread dedicated to that, I almost drove into a tree this morning listening to that whacko. He is so high strung and just annoying.

draft vince! save you money! bring the kiddos! i'm high on coke! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[mateo]

Mel's Mock today:

1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB USC
2. New Orleans Mario Williams, DE NC State
3. Tennessee Matt Leinart, QB USC
4. N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T Virginia
5. Green Bay A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio St.
6. San Francisco Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland Vince Young, QB Texas
8. Buffalo Brodrick Bunkley, DT Florida St.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB Texas
10. Arizona Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
12. Cleveland Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida St.
13. Baltimore Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
14. Philadelphia Winston Justice, T USC
15. Denver (from ATL) Chad Jackson, WR Florida
16. Miami Donte Whitner, S Ohio St.
17. Minnesota Ernie Sims, LB Florida St.
18. Dallas Jason Allen, S/CB Tennessee
19. San Diego Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
20. Kansas City Tye Hill, CB Clemson
21. New England Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio St.
22. Denver (from WSH) DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
23. Tampa Bay Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida St.
24. Cincinnati Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
25. N.Y. Giants Kelly Jennings, CB Miami
26. Chicago Richard Marshall CB Fresno St.
27. Carolina LenDale White, RB USC
28. Jacksonville Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. N.Y. Jets (from DEN) Manny Lawson, DE/OLB NC State
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
31. Seattle Ashton Youboty, CB Ohio St.
32. Pittsburgh Sinorice Moss, WR Miami

Second-Round Projections
33. Houston Eric Winston, T Miami
34. New Orleans Nick Mangold, C Ohio St.
35. N.Y. Jets Joseph Addai, RB LSU
36. Green Bay Tamba Hali, DE Penn St.
37. San Francisco Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio St.
38. Oakland Gabe Watson, DT Michigan
39. Tennessee D'Qwell Jackson, LB Maryland
40. Detroit Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
41. Arizona Leonard Pope, TE Georgia
42. Buffalo Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, G USC
43. Cleveland Abdul Hodge, LB Iowa
44. Baltimore Brodie Croyle, QB Alabama
45. Philadelphia DeMeco Ryans, LB Alabama
46. St. Louis Orien Harris, DT Miami
47. Atlanta Cedric Griffin, CB Texas
48. Minnesota Kellen Clemens, QB Oregon
49. Dallas Marcus McNeill, T Auburn
50. San Diego Demetrius Williams, WR Oregon
51. Minnesota (from MIA) Chris Chester, OL Oklahoma
52. New England Brian Calhoun, RB Wisconsin
53. Washington Rocky McIntosh, LB Miami
54. Kansas City Darryl Tapp, DE Virginia Tech
55. Cincinnati Dominique Byrd, TE USC
56. N.Y. Giants Thomas Howard, LB UTEP
57. Chicago Greg Jennings, WR Western Michigan
58. Carolina Joe Klopfenstein, TE Colorado
59. Tampa Bay Andrew Whitworth, T LSU
60. Jacksonville Jason Spitz, C Louisville
61. Denver Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
62. Indianapolis Daniel Bullocks, DB Nebraska
63. Seattle Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College
64. Pittsburgh Danieal Manning, DB Abilene Christian

Third-Round Projections
65. Houston Ko Simpson, DB South Carolina
66. Houston (from NO) Gerris Wilkinson, LB Georgia Tech
67. Green Bay Max Jean-Gilles, G Georgia
68. San Francisco David Pittman, CB Northwestern St. (La.)
69. Oakland Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
70. Buffalo (from TEN) Ryan O'Callaghan, T California
71. N.Y. Jets Brandon Williams, WR Wisconsin
72. Arizona Jon Alston, LB Stanford
73. Buffalo Maurice Stovall, WR Notre Dame
74. Detroit Devin Hester, CB Miami
75. New England (from BAL) Chris Gocong, DE/LB Cal Poly-SLO
76. Philadelphia Claude Wroten, DT LSU
77. St. Louis David Thomas, TE Texas
78. Cleveland Charles Spencer, G Pittsburgh
79. Atlanta Calvin Lowery, DB Penn St.
80. Dallas Charlie Whitehurst, QB Clemson
81. San Diego Paul McQuistan, OL Weber St.
82. Miami Parys Haralson, DE Tennessee
83. Minnesota Will Blackmon, WR/CB Boston College
84. San Francisco (from WSH) Victor Adeyanju, DE Indiana
85. Kansas City Brandon Marshall, WR Central Florida
86. New England Montavious Stanley, DT Louisville
87. N.Y. Giants Kyle Williams, DT LSU
88. Chicago Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
89. Carolina Darnell Bing, DB USC
90. Tampa Bay Willie Reid, WR Fresno St.
91. Cincinnati Stanley McClover, DE Auburn
92. Jacksonville Jerome Harrison, RB Washington St.
93. Atlanta (from DEN) Devin Aromashodu, WR Auburn
94. Indianapolis Dusty Dvoracek, DT Oklahoma
95. Minnesota (from SEA) Le Kevin Smith, DT Nebraska
96. Pittsburgh Brent Hawkins, DE/OLB Illinois St.
97. N.Y. Jets (comp. pick) Roman Harper, DB Alabama

Fourth-Round Projections
98. Houston James Wyche, DE Syracuse
99. New Orleans Demetrice Webb, CB Florida
100. San Francisco Lawrence Vickers, FB Colorado
101. Oakland Anthony Smith, DB Syracuse
102. Tennessee Leon Washington, RB Florida St.
103. N.Y. Jets Alan Zemaitis, CB Penn St.
104. Green Bay Derrick Martin, CB Wyoming
105. Buffalo Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville
106. New England (from DET) Guy Whimper, T East Carolina
107. Arizona Fred Matua, G USC
108. Philadelphia David Kirtman, FB USC
109. St. Louis Kevin Boothe, OL Cornell
110. Cleveland DeMario Minter, CB Georgia
111. Baltimore Dion Byrum, CB Ohio
112. Cleveland (from ATL) Rodrique Wright, DT Texas
113. San Diego Babatunde Oshinowo, DT Stanford
114. Miami Zach Strief, T Northwestern
115. Minnesota Miles Austin, WR Monmouth
116. Philadelphia (from DAL) Tarvaris Jackson, QB Alabama St.
117. N.Y. Jets (from KC) Greg Eslinger, C Minnesota
118. New England Derek Hagan, WR Arizona St.
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
120. Chicago Freddie Keiaho, LB San Diego St.
121. Carolina Jonathan Scott, T Texas
122. Tampa Bay Brandon Johnson, LB Louisville
123. Cincinnati John McCargo, DT NC State
124. N.Y. Giants Jeremy Trueblood, T Boston College
125. Jacksonville James Anderson, LB Virginia Tech
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
127. Philadelphia (from IND) Hank Baskett, WR New Mexico
128. Seattle John Torp, P Colorado
129. Pittsburgh Andre Hall, RB South Florida

[brentdapmp]

The part of that that I found to be so stupid before I turned it off was how everything Mac was saying had to do with "he'll sell tickets" or "Vince will double the value of your franchise from day one" or "he is a born leader", "he is unbelieveable charismatic". I mean he made absoultely no sense football wise. Everything he was saying was geared toward the marketing ability of Vince if he were to be a Texan. There is nobody who will argue the fact he would be unbelieveably marketable here in Houston, but it seemed like he was refusing to even think about the football part, but maybe he talked more about that after I tuned him out. Of course this is not surprising considering Mac's whole world is marketing, but he just does not understand that the Texans have to make the move that will win them the most games. I just could not stand hearing him anymore.

[pgabriel]

Mattress Mac played college football, I'm sure he understands it more than marketing.

[brentdapmp]

Mattress Mac played college football, I'm sure he understands it more than marketing.

Did you hear the interview this morning? Like I said I don't know what happened after I tuned out, but for the first 5 minutes before I turned it off his whole arguement had to do with the marketing of Vince.

[mateo]

McClain's article in the Chron today left me feeling like Jeff.

The Houston media has gone nuts

[pgabriel]

Did you hear the interview this morning? Like I said I don't know what happened after I tuned out, but for the first 5 minutes before I turned it off his whole arguement had to do with the marketing of Vince.


I've heard Mattress Mac several times raving about vince's playing ability, the marketing, everything. I didn't hear it today, but I've heard him at least twice.

[Groogrux]

McClain's article in the Chron today left me feeling like Jeff.

The Houston media has gone nuts

Would you feel the same way if he was talking about the guy you want the Texans to draft?

[pgabriel]

I really don't get the complaints about 610, the chronicle I can understand a little. as much as you guys complain about lord being on vince's nuts, vandemeer has rode carr's jock into the ground since day 1, so he might not like bush as much as lord likes vince, but he doesn't want to see his boyfriend leave houston.

matt jackson hates ut, and he doesn't want to see vince here. adam went to ut but of all 610 guys he is probably the most objective.

lance is a huge bush guy, and I think when lance talks about vince's positives its mostly lip service. lance thought vince wasn't an nfl qb just at the beginning of this past college season, almost insisting he was gonna have to be a receiver. Grenato is a huge vince guy.

[MadMax]

I really don't get the complaints about 610, the chronicle I can understand a little. as much as you guys complain about lord being on vince's nuts, vandemeer has rode carr's jock into the ground since day 1, so he might not like bush as much as lord likes vince, but he doesn't want to see his boyfriend leave houston.

matt jackson hates ut, and he doesn't want to see vince here. adam went to ut but of all 610 guys he is probably the most objective.

lance is a huge bush guy, and I think when lance talks about vince's positives its mostly lip service. lance thought vince wasn't an nfl qb just at the beginning of this past college season, almost insisting he was gonna have to be a receiver. Grenato is a huge vince guy.

i don't get the complaints because that's what these guys get paid for...not objective journalism they're paid for their opinions. from Granato...to McLain..to Lance...to Charlie..to whoever. they have opinions that foster discussion...the very nature of what sports talk radio is.

[Major]

I'm still hoping for a big offer to come from the Jets or someone. Something like #1 for #4 + #29 + #35. :)

The problem with this idea is that, despite all the hype about Bush being such a unique once-in-10-years talent, no one below us really wants him all that much. NO wants defense. Tennessee and NY want QB's. Why would NY trade away so much when they can get the player they want at the 4 spot?

[Groogrux]

i don't get the complaints because that's what these guys get paid for...not objective journalism they're paid for their opinions. from Granato...to McLain..to Lance...to Charlie..to whoever. they have opinions that foster discussion...the very nature of what sports talk radio is.

In fairness, we do bitch about Justice a lot. :)

[pgabriel]

In fairness, we do bitch about Justice a lot. :)


I was gonna say this to but it wouldn't have helped me out so I didn't. actually the reason I didn't write it is because the complaints about justice have more to do with his opinion not being based in any reasoning. also the guy changes his opinion seemingly every column.

as far as the chronicle overall, this has a lot to do with the negatives of having one paper in this town. the chronicle rightly or wrongly can be as pro vince as they want, there is not really a viable option.

its the same thing with their political columns.

[mateo]

Would you feel the same way if he was talking about the guy you want the Texans to draft?

If I specifically wanted the Texans to draft a player...instead of trading down which is what I want....then maybe.

What I want is the Texans to draft as many impact players that will play NOW. Its not that I dont like Vince, he's great...I just think its a bad move for the Texans unless they manage to get a lot of extra talent in the process.

[gucci888]

The problem with this idea is that, despite all the hype about Bush being such a unique once-in-10-years talent, no one below us really wants him all that much. NO wants defense. Tennessee and NY want QB's. Why would NY trade away so much when they can get the player they want at the 4 spot?

You're assuming we know which player NY wants. They're in an interesting position because they could use any of the top players (Bush, Leinart, VY, Mario, D'Brick). Pennington restructured his contract and they brought in Ramsey so a QB might not be as needed as before.

NO could use defense, but I don't think they would pass on Bush if he somehow fell into their hands.

[Jeff]

McClain's story today wasn't a column. It was supposed to be a news story about the Titans and their interest in VY - or McClain's interest in them taking him.

I'm just a little frustrated by the blurring of the line between news story and opinion. Seems like it has gotten out of hand recently.

[MadMax]

In fairness, we do bitch about Justice a lot. :)

my bitching about him has to do with how quickly his opinion switches...and how he pretends as if it didn't. the jeff kent thing was exhibit "a" for me...on one hand, he told us all that kent should be riding the pine so chris burke could start...and then the next year told us all how cheap drayton was for not re-signing kent. when justice writes, it's clearly his opinion...i just disagree with it. i give him some credit, though, for coming around a bit on the Astros. i guess getting your ass handed to you by them over and over again ultimately leads you there!

[pgabriel]

first of all, why does anyone care about what johnny thinks about Bud Adams' pick. secondly john mclain has written numerous articles about bud adams hating houston for the past 8 years. his whole theory, is bud adams will pick vince in order to spite houston fans.

[Major]

You're assuming we know which player NY wants. They're in an interesting position because they could use any of the top players (Bush, Leinart, VY, Mario, D'Brick). Pennington restructured his contract and they brought in Ramsey so a QB might not be as needed as before.

NO could use defense, but I don't think they would pass on Bush if he somehow fell into their hands.

I agree with NY - but my point is that they are happy with who they'll have available, so why trade so much to move up when they could fill just as big a need at #4?

In NO's case, if Reggie fell to them, I think they'd try to trade the pick or just take Mario Williams. Having that much money tied up into Duece McAllister and Reggie Bush would destroy that franchise. Most teams don't even like tying up that kind of money in one running back, let alone two.

[Jeff]

first of all, why does anyone care about what johnny thinks about Bud Adams' pick. secondly john mclain has written numerous articles about bud adams hating houston for the past 8 years. his whole theory, is bud adams will pick vince in order to spite houston fans.

There are days when I really, seriously hope that VY gets picked by an NFC team like New Orleans or Arizona just so McClain won't be able to write about his stupid, beloved rivalry.

One of the ONLY reasons I was glad to see Hakeem retire and stay away from Houston was so Fran Blinebury would stop writing about the Rockets. That was his only link to the team. Life has been so peaceful not having to read his crap. :D

[jtotheb]

I guess I just don't understand how much leverage the Texans think that they can get by waiting until the last minute to work out contracts with either Bush or Williams (and yes I meant to omit VY from my statement). I am so ready for the draft.

[gucci888]

Most teams don't even like tying up that kind of money in one running back, let alone two.

I guess we're the exception. ;)

[Harrisment]

my bitching about him has to do with how quickly his opinion switches

You mean like this?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/3788381.html

[gr8-1]

McClain's story today wasn't a column. It was supposed to be a news story about the Titans and their interest in VY - or McClain's interest in them taking him.

I'm just a little frustrated by the blurring of the line between news story and opinion. Seems like it has gotten out of hand recently.


Yep. McClain for Young and Aggy Lopez for Bush.

[Fegwu]

I guess we're the exception. ;)


Without prejudice, DD's contract is not as heavy as Deuce's. Cutting Deuce in July is not an option either. But I get your point - I am a strong believer that DD can give us what it takes to make the playoffs as well as challenge therein. That is why D'Brick or Super Mario is my choice - if only we can find a team to trade down with.

People who are clamouring for Bush or Young are not being rational imho. I believe sentiments and fools gold is the catalyst of such choices. I am not a Carr fan but with coach Cube and what he was able to accomplish in Denver, I am willing to be optimistic of the current offensive backs.

Just trade down CC. The wisest and most prudent option/choice.

[Harrisment]

Just trade down CC. The wisest and most prudent option/choice.

You're kidding yourself if you still think this is Casserley's decision. I think this comes down to what Kubiak and McNair want to do.

[Fegwu]

You're kidding yourself if you still think this is Casserley's decision. I think this comes down to what Kubiak and McNair want to do.

I agree. But even if he is just the figure head, he is the one who will rubber stamp any deal albeit technically. History will not say anybody else made the transaction other than the GM, Charlie Cass.

But yes I do agree with you - the order of power in the deal is Bob, Cube and the Cass.

Whoever it is that is in charge - just do the right thing - make trading down to nab D'Brick or Super Mario your priority 1, 2 and 3.

[stevel]

I agree. But even if he is just the figure head, he is the one who will rubber stamp any deal albeit technically. History will not say anybody else made the transaction other than the GM, Charlie Cass.

But yes I do agree with you - the order of power in the deal is Bob, Cube and the Cass.

Whoever it is that is in charge - just do the right thing - make trading down to nab D'Brick or Super Mario your priority 1, 2 and 3.

While I would not be adverse to trading down, I have two issues with trading down. First there are LOTS of good to excellent O linemen in this draft, it is extremely deep in this area. My question is: Is D'Brick going to be be head and shoulders better then Winston, McNeil, Colledge, Scott ect... to warrant taking him in the first. Besides, Pitts played very well at LT last year once he switched over. What we need is a RT more than anything. You could certainly say that you could take D'Brick and mover Pitt, I just wonder if he is head and shoulders better than some of the other OLs.

My second issue is that while they struggled as OLBs in the 3-4, I am curious what Babin and Peek can do when they are allowed to attack the QB. These guys (according to G.Walker) were really missused under the last DC. In fact GW said on 610 that Peek was almost unblockable but that Fangio wouldn't let him get after the QB consistently. The new DC was on the radio about a month ago and he said he expected both Babin and Peek to play ver well next season as they are going back to their natural position.

[Fegwu]

You raise good points.

First I believe Ferguson has what it takes be as good as Orlando Pace and possibly better as far as O-linemen is concerned - he has that much potential. But like I heard Jerry Jones say on ESPN last night, nothing is ever guaranteed in sports especially in football - so you never know if D'Brick could reach his projected level of excellenece.

I am not taking GW's words alone here - I still like to believe that a coach who took Carolina Panthers to great heights as an expansion team (even though Fangio was the DC) would know a little more about how to use his players. Peek and Babin have potential imho to be very good but if if if....

We shall see how the powers that be evaluate all these things.

The problem everyone said was the number one problem for our team was centered mostly around the trenches. What is the point then picking Bush or Young when we already have given DD and Carr the financial backing as a reward of what they have accomplished? I heard Kiper say that Bush will only be a 10-15 carries (IIRC) a game back and the reason he is considered the #1 guy is more because of his catching ability. He also said Young will at least be 3 years away from standing out.

We are not that close to contenting to afford that luxury especially when we already have parts in those departments. If we take away the emotional pull of drafting Young or Bush, you will see that there is little reason to draft them - we do not necessarily need any one of them now. Folks in the Bush as well as Young camp are just not looking at things rationally - they are more concerned about beating each other - if you really care about Texans imho, you will see that we do NOT need Bush and/or Young.

[Jeff]

TWhat is the point then picking Bush or Young when we already have given DD and Carr the financial backing as a reward of what they have accomplished? I heard Kiper say that Bush will only be a 10-15 carries (IIRC) a game back and the reason he is considered the #1 guy is more because of his catching ability. He also said Young will at least be 3 years away from standing out.

I think the reasons go something like this:

Reggie Bush
Dominick Davis has shown that he cannot stay healthy for an entire season. There is no reason to believe that will change. As a result, you have to assume you will need another back to compliment him. Most teams have at least 2 quality runners on staff unless they have a proven commodity at RB who doesn't get injured - LT for example. In addition, many, MANY scouts have said that, compared to ALL other prospects (not just RB's), Bush may be the best player to emerge from college football in 10, 15, 20 years. That kind of dynamic talent is hard to pass up.

Vince Young
No matter what you have paid David Carr, passing on a franchise-calliber quarterback, a guy some believe will help to re-define the position, is a bad idea if you have a shot at him. Contracts can be traded. Players can be cut. In some ways, Carr having an extension allows Young to learn and, as you said, the Texans are not on the fast track to a Super Bowl, giving him plenty of time to develop. Carr, if he has a good season, could also bring value on the trade market if you decide to send him packing.

Also, an argument could be made for either of them that the Texans need someone to hang the franchise on - a defining player that will be the face of the organization. Right now, they don't have that dynamic presence and it is hard to put a price tag on that.

---

That seems to be the line of reasoning. Granted, football is VERY different from basketball or baseball in that it takes more than one great player to alter the outcome of a season. But, it sure as hell helps if you have one on your team.

[Fegwu]

Fair recap of the points Jeff.

But don't we have Vernand Morency? Maybe I am in the minority but the kid is going to be special or at least he has the makings. Good backup or good back are historically easier to find than good linemen - you can never get enough good linemen and this is the secret behind the successes the Denver Broncos enjoyed for so many years now.

Vince indeed be the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL - he could also be the next Akili Smith. One thing we know is that Carr can give you better than what Rothlisberger gave you in the last SB and what Trent Dilfer ever gave you - that is Carr can win the big one without necessarily being one of the greats. Rosenfels is also a good backup.

We could also land USC's other RB (the one with the hamstring injury) in the second round. Some would say this draft is deep in linemen - that is good - because we need a lot of depth in those areas (D and O).

Our team has never had any problem moving the ball when Carr got good protection in the last 2 years - we just couldn't stop teams consistently and Carr was always running for his life. With good protection and depth on both side of the trenches we have a better chance to win now and win later - we can easily put up 23 (+ or - 2) points per game with this current team.

[MadMax]

- we can easily put up 23 (+ or - 2) points per game with this current team.

what do you wanna bet we don't put up 23 ppg next season??

[stevel]

You raise good points.

First I believe Ferguson has what it takes be as good as Orlando Pace and possibly better as far as O-linemen is concerned - he has that much potential. But like I heard Jerry Jones say on ESPN last night, nothing is ever guaranteed in sports especially in football - so you never know if D'Brick could reach his projected level of excellenece.

I am not taking GW's words alone here - I still like to believe that a coach who took Carolina Panthers to great heights as an expansion team (even though Fangio was the DC) would know a little more about how to use his players. Peek and Babin have potential imho to be very good but if if if....

We shall see how the powers that be evaluate all these things.

The problem everyone said was the number one problem for our team was centered mostly around the trenches. What is the point then picking Bush or Young when we already have given DD and Carr the financial backing as a reward of what they have accomplished? I heard Kiper say that Bush will only be a 10-15 carries (IIRC) a game back and the reason he is considered the #1 guy is more because of his catching ability. He also said Young will at least be 3 years away from standing out.

We are not that close to contenting to afford that luxury especially when we already have parts in those departments. If we take away the emotional pull of drafting Young or Bush, you will see that there is little reason to draft them - we do not necessarily need any one of them now. Folks in the Bush as well as Young camp are just not looking at things rationally - they are more concerned about beating each other - if you really care about Texans imho, you will see that we do NOT need Bush and/or Young.

First, Capers and Fangio were able to bring a BUNCH of very talented but older FAs especially on defense. They brought in Lathon, Greene, Sam Mills just to name a few. That is one of the reasons why the Panthers were so successful early on. These already knew how the game should be played before coming in. This is also why the fell so quickly, as these guys were all on the older side when they got to Carolina. Fangio had the worst defense in the league when he coached at Indy before coming here, and I was shocked that we hired him based on what he did in Indy. GW was very specific in faulting Fangio and not Capers. He said specifically that the defense we ran here wasn't Caper's style. GW played for Capers in JAX and he said this defense was WAAAY different. He said that he loved playing in Caper'd defense but the Fangio's was ridiculous and that he missused the talent he had. Take that for what it is worth.

With regards to the O line, when Reeves evaluated the game films and schemes the Texans were trying to run on offense (and he was an excellent offensive coach) he found our blocking schemes to be unintelligable. This is per John McClain on 610am, and that is a direct quote. That makes me wonder how much of our problems were scheme and how much were talent related. Don't get me wrong we have holes, especially at RT - Wade is horrible in pass protection but he is an excellent run blocker.

I think the most prudent thing to do is to draft the most talented player available, unless we clearly don't have a need (ie WR at this point). I am fine trading down, but more to get extra picks than to avoid Bush. I have seen a ton of college ball and I have seen alot of the guys that people compare him to play ball. The Desmond Howard, Rocket Ismail comparisons are ludicrous. Those guys were WRs that could run the ball alittle. Bush has incredible change of direction ability, in league with Sanders, although I compare him more to Marshall Faulk. I view Bush as an offensive weapon. This crap that he should only touch the ball 10-15 times a game is silly. If you ran Bush 12-15 times at RB and had him in the slot another 10-12 times he could give you more than enough production to justify the pick. Additionally, he will absolutely draw attention when he is on the field creating favorable matchup with the other offensive players, AJ, EM, JP, DD, ect... I would take the best available OT in the second and I would consider trading the 2 3rds to move up in the second to take Lewis at TE (although hopefully he would fall into the third but I am not crossing my fingers on that one). That would give us an offensive package that included AJ and EM at WR, M Lewis and JP at TE, Bush and DD at RB and that my friend would be difficult for anyone to contend with. BTW, there is a LB from Virginia that got kicked out of school and is avaiable in the supplemental draft i would try to pick him up as well. He is supposed to be a beast, but he was nicked up this past season. Got to throw the D a bone.

[MadMax]

we can easily put up 23 (+ or - 2) points per game with this current team.


what do you want to bet we don't put up 23 ppg next season???

[stevel]

Fair recap of the points Jeff.

But don't we have Vernand Morency? Maybe I am in the minority but the kid is going to be special or at least he has the makings. Good backup or good back are historically easier to find than good linemen - you can never get enough good linemen and this is the secret behind the successes the Denver Broncos enjoyed for so many years now.

Vince indeed be the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL - he could also be the next Akili Smith. One thing we know is that Carr can give you better than what Rothlisberger gave you in the last SB and what Trent Dilfer ever gave you - that is Carr can win the big one without necessarily being one of the greats. Rosenfels is also a good backup.

We could also land USC's other RB (the one with the hamstring injury) in the second round. Some would say this draft is deep in linemen - that is good - because we need a lot of depth in those areas (D and O).

Our team has never had any problem moving the ball when Carr got good protection in the last 2 years - we just couldn't stop teams consistently and Carr was always running for his life. With good protection and depth on both side of the trenches we have a better chance to win now and win later - we can easily put up 23 (+ or - 2) points per game with this current team.

An interesting thing to note about Denver, they rarely use high draft picks on linemen.

[Jeff]

But don't we have Vernand Morency? Maybe I am in the minority but the kid is going to be special or at least he has the makings. Good backup or good back are historically easier to find than good linemen - you can never get enough good linemen and this is the secret behind the successes the Denver Broncos enjoyed for so many years now.

Actually, isn't it Denver that doesn't have any first round draft picks on it's offensive line? I think Indy also has maybe just one? I remember reading an article about how some of the best offensive lines in the league weren't built around high draft picks.

As for Morency, I wouldn't be putting any money on him and the difference sbetween a Davis/Morency backfield and a Davis/Bush backfield are numerous and significant.

I don't dispute your argument about backs being easier to find than linemen though.

Vince indeed be the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL - he could also be the next Akili Smith. One thing we know is that Carr can give you better than what Rothlisberger gave you in the last SB and what Trent Dilfer ever gave you - that is Carr can win the big one without necessarily being one of the greats. Rosenfels is also a good backup.

I think you are being a tad optimistic. I'm not knocking Carr, but comparing him to one game that Rothlisberger played isn't a fair comparison. Look at what Big Ben did to get there in the first place. Dilfer is a bad comparison because his team didn't need him to win for them. They were built around defense. Kubiak isn't a defensive minded guy.

And Rosenfels is clearly a step down from Banks at this point or, at the very best, a sideways move. But, that isn't really part of the argument here.

We could also land USC's other RB (the one with the hamstring injury) in the second round. Some would say this draft is deep in linemen - that is good - because we need a lot of depth in those areas (D and O).

Lendale White could be a possibility assuming he makes it into the second round, but that is doubtful even with his poor showing on pro day. We do need offensive line depth, to be sure, but I wouldn't bet on D-line being nearly the priority that defensive back and linebacker are. Right now, our 2nd corner is either Faggins or...I don't even want to go there. :)

Our team has never had any problem moving the ball when Carr got good protection in the last 2 years - we just couldn't stop teams consistently and Carr was always running for his life. With good protection and depth on both side of the trenches we have a better chance to win now and win later - we can easily put up 23 (+ or - 2) points per game with this current team.

I wouldn't exactly say that. Remember that even Kubiak admitted that 20+ sacks last year were on Carr, not on the offensive line. There were also a not significant number attributed to missed assignments by the backs, noteably Davis who has never been known for his pass protection.

I'm not saying the line isn't a problem. It was. But, it wasn't as if this team was a scoring machine when they were able to move the ball. They have always struggled to score touchdowns in the red zone and in 4 years has only gone over 3000 yards one time. He hasn't even been within 400 yards of that mark in any other season.

Personally, I think Carr can do the job. And I do think an improved line will help. I'm just not sure you bail out on number one pick in the draft unless you get a ridiculous offer just for an O-lineman.

[swilkins]

what do you want to bet we don't put up 23 ppg next season???

Would you settle for 18?

[Harrisment]

FYI, there is another draft special on ESPN right now. I heard they are going to run a new one everyday up until the draft.

[gr8-1]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5515360

[VooDooPope]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5515360

I agree with those experts and I'm still hoping we decide to build around VY.

I'd say the chances are slim but I'm still hoping.