Andrea Bargnani

[Amel]

let's say we get a good pick, we def have to go after this guy

god forbid something happens with tmac again, he could replace him for the time he is out...

how does this look like

rafer
bargnani
tmac
swift
yao

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6413229403014366549&q=bargnani&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6131822744621417810&q=andrea+bargani

[waran007]

He's 7ft tall and they say he's 2 steps too slow to guard small forwards, how could he guard NBA two-guards? He's also too weak to guard power forwards, meaning he's a dreaded tweaner, though with some substantial skills. The problem with these Euro bigs is that they have skills they may be unable to use in the league. Dirk has an unbelievable first step and handles, to go along with 7-footer strength, which is almost impossible, so he can use his scoring ability as an advantage. The problem that the Tskitishvili kid had was that he played exactly like a two-guard but was just too big, while at the same time having no big-man skills to speak of.

This guy could be Nowitzki or Tskitishvili, or somewhere in between, just a total crapshoot. Even if he's Nowitzki, we're gonna be waiting at least 3 years for that to show up. Do we have that kind of time with our roster? There's more to lose from selecting him than to gain, in my opinion.

[sbyang]

let's say we get a good pick, we def have to go after this guy

god forbid something happens with tmac again, he could replace him for the time he is out...

how does this look like

rafer
bargnani
tmac
swift
yao

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6413229403014366549&q=bargnani&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6131822744621417810&q=andrea+bargani

Why do you say definitely? A couple highlights vs Euros makes him a sure thing? You have to be real careful with those shooting Euro big men these days. More of them turn out to be Lampe than Gasol or Dirk.

I think if we sit at #10 we might still have a chance at Bargnani. Since Darko got drafted, the last few drafts all involved highly hyped Euros falling come draft day. Draft services like NBAdraft.net and the great Chad Ford always overhype some euro big before the draft, then they get passed over again and again. And teams were right to pass on those guys because they've done squat in the league so far.

[peleincubus]

ive seen people make ratio statements before as far as non-U.S. players are concerned. and there are just as many busts for ncaa players and H.S. players as any foreign player. you take a chance on just about all players in drafts.

but you guys are mostly right in saying we need some to contribute as soon as possible. and that probably isnt that guy.

[JayZ750]

I think if we sit at #10 we might still have a chance at Bargnani. Since Darko got drafted, the last few drafts all involved highly hyped Euros falling come draft day. Draft services like NBAdraft.net and the great Chad Ford always overhype some euro big before the draft, then they get passed over again and again. And teams were right to pass on those guys because they've done squat in the league so far.

Frankly, it's unfair to throw this label only on Euros. This happens with Americans, too. And for every euro bust, there is a euro/international star/good player (Drik, Yao, Peja, Ginobili, Nene).

Obviously, any team would be stupid to draft this guy based just off google videos.

I'm sure everybody has scouts closely following his, and others, performances.

That said, all we have to go on is stuff like these videos, and sports reporters opinions.

Got to take them with a grain of salt, but his highlight videos honestly were very impressive. Looks like he has pretty good athleticism for someone his size (it was hard to tell he was 7'0 he was moving so well), in addition to a good shot. Strength would be an issue, but it almost always is for people first entering the NBA. And he'd still only be 20 when drafted.

He looks decent, but who knows??

[giddyup]

Never heard of the guy-- just watched the videos. Looks pretty good to me but I don't know the level of the competition.

I thought he showed great shooting form and he got his shot off quickly, too.

Don't get the Dirk comparisons, though, this guy was blocking shots... :D

[emjohn]

We need role players, not new franchise guys. Anyone that likes this guy thinks he'll be another Dirk. We need that? I want pieces that fit around Yao/McGrady, not someone new to build around. Additionally, skinny 7-footers that can shoot but are questionable in the post aren't my cup of tea. I would far rather a dependable non-All-Star like Roy.

If this were another Ginobilli, I'd be all for it.

Evan

[sbyang]

Frankly, it's unfair to throw this label only on Euros. This happens with Americans, too. And for every euro bust, there is a euro/international star/good player (Drik, Yao, Peja, Ginobili, Nene).


Did you just call Nene a star? I can agree with the other 4, also put Parker and Gasol into the star mix, but Nene?

Anyway, if you look at those international guys from 97' (Peja), to Yao (2002). There was a goldmine of underrated international talent in the draft. If you look at what happened after the Yao Ming pick in 2002, well you can argue that every single player picked has been a draft, Boris Diaw is like the only one to play above expectations. The international guys were good for 5 years, then the talent dried up.

So you can't say that there's a good player for every bust, there's too many busts. Remember Boki? Remember Jiri Welsch? How about Tskitishvili? Then again if you think Nene is a star you probably think these guys are talented role players.

There's been 2 booms in the draft in the last 10 years, the HS Boom, and the international boom. Both booms are pretty much over so now, one because the rules changed, the other because the talent dried up. Just think about the success of the HS boom and compare it to the international boom.

[Amel]

let me put some things into this discussion

1. he is not skinny, fairly built
2. he is young and smart
3. nice outside shot, nice touch
4. he is a 7 footer
5. runs the floor pretty well
6. he is def not Tskitishvili or Lampe

guys..what I have seen, ok it's not too much..but I think enough for me to make this statement

"This guy is going to be something like Nowitzki!"

[thetennisyao]

brandon roy is less risky.

[JayZ750]

Did you just call Nene a star? I can agree with the other 4, also put Parker and Gasol into the star mix, but Nene?

I called him a good player. You quoted it, so I assume you read it??

[sbyang]

let me put some things into this discussion

1. he is not skinny, fairly built
2. he is young and smart
3. nice outside shot, nice touch
4. he is a 7 footer
5. runs the floor pretty well
6. he is def not Tskitishvili or Lampe

guys..what I have seen, ok it's not too much..but I think enough for me to make this statement

"This guy is going to be something like Nowitzki!"

I just have to ask, what exactly have you seen from him? Have you seen his games? He's playing 20 min a game so there's some footage there. Why do you say that he's not skinny? every profile says this guy needs to add bulk.

Pretty much every Euro 7 footer has a nice shot, this guy supposedly has guard like skills outside. But what about his weaknesses? Does he alter shots around the rim? Can he box out and get a reboud in traffic? Can he stop an NBA power forward from getting to the rim? Does he like contact?

You have to remember that we are not where Dallas was when it drafted Dirk, we are more where Detroit was when they drafted Darko. Our coach's personality is such that he would sit this guy down like Darko if he can't defend and rebound. We will be in the playoff hunt with Mcgrady back next year. We can't afford to give this guy 30 mins per game as a rookie to let him screw up and develop. The coach wouldn't stand for it, the other players wouldn't stand for it. If the young Dirk got drafted onto this team, he would spend most of his rookie contract sitting on the bench.

I hope for Bargnani's sake that he goes to the crappy teams in Toronto, Portland, and not to us. We don't need a repeat of the Darko experience. I wanted to give an example of the overrating of International big men, so I did some research from nbadraft.net, here's some Euros from recent drafts who were all touted as top 5 picks by this draft service.

Andrea Bargnani
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp

Martynas Andriuskevicius
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp

Nickoloz Tskitishvili
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/nickoloztskitishvili.htm

Darko Milicic
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/darkomilicic.htm

Maciej Lampe
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/maciejlampe.htm

As you can see, there's a couple of Nowitzki and Gasols thrown in there; Darko they said would be much better than either.

Here's another one of some guy they compared to Rik Smits :)

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/yaoming.htm

[sbyang]

I called him a good player. You quoted it, so I assume you read it??

You called him a star, can you tell me your definition of a star? and I have another question , is Juwan Howard a star?

[Amel]

I just have to ask, what exactly have you seen from him? Have you seen his games? He's playing 20 min a game so there's some footage there. Why do you say that he's not skinny? every profile says this guy needs to add bulk.

Pretty much every Euro 7 footer has a nice shot, this guy supposedly has guard like skills outside. But what about his weaknesses? Does he alter shots around the rim? Can he box out and get a reboud in traffic? Can he stop an NBA power forward from getting to the rim? Does he like contact?

You have to remember that we are not where Dallas was when it drafted Dirk, we are more where Detroit was when they drafted Darko. Our coach's personality is such that he would sit this guy down like Darko if he can't defend and rebound. We will be in the playoff hunt with Mcgrady back next year. We can't afford to give this guy 30 mins per game as a rookie to let him screw up and develop. The coach wouldn't stand for it, the other players wouldn't stand for it. If the young Dirk got drafted onto this team, he would spend most of his rookie contract sitting on the bench.

I hope for Bargnani's sake that he goes to the crappy teams in Toronto, Portland, and not to us. We don't need a repeat of the Darko experience. I wanted to give an example of the overrating of International big men, so I did some research from nbadraft.net, here's some Euros from recent drafts who were all touted as top 5 picks by this draft service.

Andrea Bargnani
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp

Martynas Andriuskevicius
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp

Nickoloz Tskitishvili
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/nickoloztskitishvili.htm

Darko Milicic
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/darkomilicic.htm

Maciej Lampe
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/maciejlampe.htm

As you can see, there's a couple of Nowitzki and Gasols thrown in there; Darko they said would be much better than either.

Here's another one of some guy they compared to Rik Smits :)

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/yaoming.htm

you made some good points...

my feeling says that this guy could be something big...yes I seen him on a small short video clip...I still think he looks much better in those 20 seconds then Darko, Tskitishvili or Lampe for the time they played in this league

[Nice Rollin]

i'll take him.

[okierock]

If he can play defense and rebound at all the fact that he can shoot from the outside makes him a better pick for the Rockets than Noah. I think Aldridge is a much safer pick.

[jeremyang2002]

He should be top 5 pick without question.

But I dont think his game is fit for Rockets.

If he is still available at No.7/8,we should pick him up and later do a deal with other teams.

[SamFisher]

I think after wasting a pick on Turkcan and again on Nachbar instead of Tayshaun Prince - who IIRC the Rox were also high on and may have had hm next on their draft board - they're going to be leery of your Euro project guys.

[bigtexxx]

Best thing about those vids is the resurrection of Da Brat's musical genius.

"Who's that making that funky noise???!?!?!"

[JayZ750]

You called him a star, can you tell me your definition of a star? and I have another question , is Juwan Howard a star?

No, I called him a good player. Either you are incapable of reading, or you don't understand what a / is used for.

[Legendary21]

I wanted to give an example of the overrating of International big men, so I did some research from nbadraft.net, here's some Euros from recent drafts who were all touted as top 5 picks by this draft service.

Andrea Bargnani
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp

Martynas Andriuskevicius
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp

Nickoloz Tskitishvili
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/nickoloztskitishvili.htm

Darko Milicic
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/darkomilicic.htm

Maciej Lampe
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/maciejlampe.htm

As you can see, there's a couple of Nowitzki and Gasols thrown in there; Darko they said would be much better than either.

Here's another one of some guy they compared to Rik Smits :)

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/yaoming.htm


Come on, theese guys are to young to declare busts. OK maybe Tskitishvili is a bust. Lampe will maybe not be the great player that many thought he'd be, but remember that he is as young as Noah and Aldridge. I have a soft spot for Lampe since he used to play for Alvik here in Stockholm. I'm so glad he's a rocket :*).

Don't you think Darko is showing promise in Orlando btw? Definite promise. Detroit wasn't ideal for him, with Rasheed and McDyess there.

Andriuskevicius I know nothing about, but he was picked #44 so It's not extremely surprising he hasn't made the all-star team. It'd be more fitting to call Martell Webster and Andrew Bynum busts, since they were picked much higher and have not made much of an impact (yet). I wouldn't call them busts though since they still have the potential they were drafted for.

About the International talent drying up, I have to say I think that is bullcrap. Sure there was an international boom, but basketball as a game has also grown internationally over the last 15 years or so. Maybe it's the dream team effect or something :), but the international talent level is definitely on the rise (just look at who's winning the international tournaments).

Blabla.. I agree that Bargnani wouldn't be a great fit for Houston, but if he's still on the board at #10 or so I would take him over anyone who might still be available at that point (not Roy if he's available though).

[saleem]

If Bargnani proves be as good as Radmanovich in a couple of years I would consider him to be a success.His supposed strength is his outside shooting but he isn't thought to be a rebounder at all. I was surprised that he can block shots fairly well because most Euro players are not very good at it.
It seems he might look good in a Rockets uniform if he falls to us.

[apostolic3]

He should be top 5 pick without question.

But I dont think his game is fit for Rockets.

If he is still available at No.7/8,we should pick him up and later do a deal with other teams.
The videos were very impressive. This guy already has a much better skillset than Darko. It's not even close.

Agreed he is a top fiver, but if we somehow get him no way we should trade him. He's decently athletic, moves pretty well, has a sweet jumpshot with a quick release, handles a little bit, can take it to the hole and finish OK and can stop and pop like we wish Luther could. He is exactly the type of player you draft as a "project".

He won't likely be a major impact player as a rookie but he's just too good to pass up. I want us to "win now" as much as anyone but this guy could be a very special player.

[jakedasnake]

He seems like he has a similar body type to AK47 but with better ball handling and shooting skills. Obviously he is not as good on defense as AK but he seems like he could be an even more skilled version of Radmanovich. I hate to make all these comparisons but they really all kind of blend together. This clip shows some really great highlights with no crappy music.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8507760607728565556&q=bargnani&pl=true

[jakedasnake]

Also, can anyone explain to me why these international players don't play more. It seems really ridiculous that some of these really talented players don't even start. Is it a seniority thing over seas or what? Or are their coaches similar to Van Gundy in that they don't trust younger players? He has got to be the best player on that team. I wish their was a much bigger sample size with international players.

[Nelly]

Also, can anyone explain to me why these international players don't play more. It seems really ridiculous that some of these really talented players don't even start. Is it a seniority thing over seas or what? Or are their coaches similar to Van Gundy in that they don't trust younger players? He has got to be the best player on that team. I wish their was a much bigger sample size with international players.

part of it is that those international coaches dont want to expose them too much for fear that the NBA scouts catch them and convince them to go to the league

[thetennisyao]

I just have to ask, what exactly have you seen from him? Have you seen his games? He's playing 20 min a game so there's some footage there. Why do you say that he's not skinny? every profile says this guy needs to add bulk.

Pretty much every Euro 7 footer has a nice shot, this guy supposedly has guard like skills outside. But what about his weaknesses? Does he alter shots around the rim? Can he box out and get a reboud in traffic? Can he stop an NBA power forward from getting to the rim? Does he like contact?

You have to remember that we are not where Dallas was when it drafted Dirk, we are more where Detroit was when they drafted Darko. Our coach's personality is such that he would sit this guy down like Darko if he can't defend and rebound. We will be in the playoff hunt with Mcgrady back next year. We can't afford to give this guy 30 mins per game as a rookie to let him screw up and develop. The coach wouldn't stand for it, the other players wouldn't stand for it. If the young Dirk got drafted onto this team, he would spend most of his rookie contract sitting on the bench.

I hope for Bargnani's sake that he goes to the crappy teams in Toronto, Portland, and not to us. We don't need a repeat of the Darko experience. I wanted to give an example of the overrating of International big men, so I did some research from nbadraft.net, here's some Euros from recent drafts who were all touted as top 5 picks by this draft service.

Andrea Bargnani
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp

Martynas Andriuskevicius
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp

Nickoloz Tskitishvili
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/nickoloztskitishvili.htm

Darko Milicic
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/darkomilicic.htm

Maciej Lampe
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/maciejlampe.htm

As you can see, there's a couple of Nowitzki and Gasols thrown in there; Darko they said would be much better than either.

Here's another one of some guy they compared to Rik Smits :)

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/yaoming.htm

great post lol, i don't think we want this guy. Wayyy to risky. :rolleyes:

[Dubious]

Good or bad, Nene is not a Euro.

[Shaji]

maciej lampe?

[Shaji]

btw a highlight video from one or two games isnt gonna convince me that we draft this guy with a freaking lottery pick...if one game is enough, then by that logic we should draft that dude from grambling who dropped 53 on southern...brion rush i think

[Legendary21]

btw a highlight video from one or two games isnt gonna convince me that we draft this guy with a freaking lottery pick...if one game is enough, then by that logic we should draft that dude from grambling who dropped 53 on southern...brion rush i think

You can easily check his euroleague stats at http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BWZ. I believe most of the highlights are from the game against Strassbourg on january 9. As you can see it was arguably his best game stat-wise, but he has played significant minutes in many euroleague games, which is btw the best competition there is in Europe. You can also check Spanoulis numbers if you want to :). Since he has played quite a lot of minutes a can't believe that the scouts can be so mistaken about him as that he will be a complete bust. Stranger things have happened though.

[Shaji]

im not saying hes gonna be a bust, he just doesnt seem like he warrants a lottery pick...as weak as this draft is gonna be, seems like theres gonna be better players available

[ChrisBosh]

nobody can say what he's gonna be, its a gamble. don't want to miss out on the next Nowitzki.

[lloyde8]

let me put some things into this discussion

1. he is not skinny, fairly built
2. he is young and smart
3. nice outside shot, nice touch
4. he is a 7 footer
5. runs the floor pretty well
6. he is def not Tskitishvili or Lampe

guys..what I have seen, ok it's not too much..but I think enough for me to make this statement

"This guy is going to be something like Nowitzki!"
I was thinking the same thing. This guy even moves smoother than Nowitzki and handles the ball better and looks to even shoot as well. I definitely would would pick him if he was still there just for his shooting, length, versatility and potential. He looks like he has alot of upside.

[Amel]

nobody can say what he's gonna be, its a gamble. don't want to miss out on the next Nowitzki.


that's right, 95% of the draft is a gamble, you really never know...

[Jacquescas]

the arguement that we need a banger next to Yao is dated. This arguement was made prior to his return from foot surgery and the new yao we have seen. The primary reason was because yao's rebounding and blocked shots were not up to par.

Yao's play, averaging 10+boards a game has proven that we dont need a banger, at least not full time next to Yao. A shooter that can drift away from Yao on offensive sets will free him up man to man alot more, or leave Baragini wide open for jumpers all the time. On the defensive side Yao has gotten good enough to handle the post.

[jopatmc]

Let's put a new date on the argument then. With the rule changes allowing for more perimeter penetration, we need two defensive stalwarts on the floor. This will allow us to go after more offensively minded wingmen that can shoot the bball and spread the court while maintaining the outside balance to get back in transition. The better our paint defense is, the more offensive minded our perimeter players can be.

[apostolic3]

Let's put a new date on the argument then. With the rule changes allowing for more perimeter penetration, we need two defensive stalwarts on the floor. This will allow us to go after more offensively minded wingmen that can shoot the bball and spread the court while maintaining the outside balance to get back in transition. The better our paint defense is, the more offensive minded our perimeter players can be.
Here is another spin: We draft a perimeter oriented PF who can spread the floor (and stay out of Yao's way) like this guy and get a "defensive stopper" at SG. I think we must get a player who can at least slow down the other team's best perimeter player (Kobe, JRich, Wade, etc). Because Rafer and Luther are such a weak defenders, our new starting SG needs to be above average defending the ball. I'm sick and tired of other teams raining 3s down on us or posting up our guards and I'm willing to sacrifice a little on the interior defense for it. After all, we have Yao on the inside and he's finally figured out how to avoid most dumb fouls.

I'm one of the few who agrees with JVG's defensive scheming of stopping the inside game first and foremost. We must get athletic perimeter players who are up to the task. That said, JVG should have adjusted the schemes this year to compensate for Rafer and Luther (or Wesley) playing at the same time.

One obvious problem is Bargnani probably won't hit the ground running his rookie year. I'd sure like to learn more about him. Those videos looked pretty good to me and he could be a special player.

[jopatmc]

Is Shelden Williams "unathletic"? No, I want my big guys inside, giving us boards and I want my perimeter guys outside spreading the floor. Classic basketball, not mixed up parts like most teams are running out there now. I don't want to trade a 6'9" to 6'11" PF rebounding the ball for a defensive stalwart at 6'5" trying to rebound the ball. We need our SF, SG, and PG to be the outside bombers and we need to have our PF roam around under the bucket cleaning up garbage and setting screens for Yao.

It also gives us better floor balance on the defensive transition. I'd much rather have my PG, SF, and SG running the floor in defensive transition then to trade my SG for my PF running the floor. I don't care how athletic Nowitzki and some of the PFs are, they are no match for a PG on the break. There is a reason why they call the positions SHOOTING GUARD and POWER FORWARD.

A power forward should be able to defend and most of all he should be dominant on the boards. Patrolling the defensive paint, intimidation, and rebounding are his primary responsibilities. Scoring, and shooting the 3 point shot are secondary, very secondary.

That is to say, if you have a shooting guard that can actually shoot the basketball. And we've got that. Wesley and Head when healthy and rested, can flat out shoot the ball. They are just not at the level to be able to create their own shot when TMac is out of the game. And both of them are too small in combination with Bogans to be able to stop the opposing swingmen defensively.

What we need on this team is Mario Elie and Otis Thorpe. There would be no better fits to go with the other 3 then them two. An Elie type player (6'5" with great shooting range that can stick the J and the size to defend SGs or SFs on the perimeter) and a Thorpe type player (Stro with muscles and a brain) to defend the paint and pick up all the junk and leftovers.

With Yao and TMac on the floor together there are plenty of opportunities for our PF to get off shots. I would rather our PF be at the lip pounding it down on the defense than hanging around at the top of the key for a clothesline jumper that blows hot and cold. If he is taking the shot at the lip, he's actually got an opportunity to rebound his own miss (which is a much higher percentage shot) and put it back. It gives us two bigs around the bucket to offensive rebound higher percentage shots. And it also traps the other team's bigs and help defenders down low by the bucket so it is harder for them to get the run outs the other way. They either give up the offensive boards or they have to collapse down low and if they are going to break, they've got to run it the full 94 feet. That is how you beat teams like Phoenix. You cram it down their throat and then some. That type of game takes the life out of a team that wants to free wheel up and down the court. A power forward shooting 18 footers just plays right into their hands. It keeps him off the glass and it allows them to attack because they can run out somebody and still get the board and then they are running downhill against a slow, flatfooted big man who cannot possibly stop either the dribble penetration or the 3 point bomb. You beat the Phoenix teams by playing classic basketball and dominating the paint and the boards. Yao cannot do it alone. He needs a defensive dominator and rebounder beside him.

We do not need a Euro who has been told he's the second coming of Nowitzki coming in here and throwing up 3 pointers or driving from the arc to the basket with the ball while TMac and Yao are standing around watching.

That's what people don't understand about the Mike James-Rafer Alston trade. Sura was injured. We did not have a guy who could get the ball to TMac and Yao consistently. We had a guy that could score very well but our best percentage offense is when Yao and TMac get their mits on the ball. It just wasn't going to happen with Mike. That's why he didn't fit.

And that's why Bargnani doesn't fit.

We need that 3rd scorer starter at the SG position and then we need a big banger, garbage type man that can defend and block shots at the 4. If he can shoot jumpers, that's just a bonus.

[apostolic3]

I've said many times earlier that the Horace Grant of the Bulls would fit perfect here. Great rebounder; decent Bball IQ; tenacious defender with a little bit of an attitude (maybe too much); can hit the mid-range J when left wide open. The perfect role player on a team with two fully functioning superstars. Most here will disagree, but Grant was better than Otis Thorpe.

Whatever kind of SG we get must be able to run hard on the break and get back on transition defense. He should be able TO FINISH a fast break, slash to the basket in 1/2 court and hopefully beat his man off the dribble sometimes. If we go with the "classic" lineup our SG should have a reliable outside shot while the PF is a banger type who stays down low. However, if Bargnani is a unique talent, we must take him. If we do, that could change the profile of the SG we need.

I don't really care what positions our outside shooting comes from. I don't care who our 2nd "defensive stalwart" is (though my preference is for it to be a perimeter defender). It's great to have another inside player who can defend well, but we need balance on that end of the floor. With Yao's intimidation inside along with his newfound defensive savvy, we can compromise a bit at PF (but not to the point of keeping both Stro and JH).

Agreed on the MJ/Rafer trade. One big difference is MJ's on-ball pressure took a load off of everyone else last year while Rafer just cannot defend well. Rafer's running mate has to make up for some of his deficiencies IMO.

Again agreed that the 3rd scorer should come from the SG position. Posted on the subject many many times. BUT, IF Bargnani is special then throw out the mold. If Bargnani isn't special then don't draft him. He will likely be gone before we pick, making the whole point moot.

[tierre_brown]

I don't like the Nowitzki comparison; from the little I've seen of him, I'd say he's more of an Arvydas Sabonis type player...

And like apostolic, I don't care what the "positions" are defined as. The NBA nowadays is more about filling roles than filling positions. I too would prefer a more classic definition of all the positions, but you can't be like JVG and refuse to adjust to the new NBA. The new NBA has freaking Boris Diaw playing center. Does that mean he's going to be a post presence? No, but he fills a role for the Suns.

Much in the same way, I think if we can fill our need ROLES and not necessarily worry about where it comes from position wise, we do it. If our PF can shoot 3s, then sign me up. If our 2 guard is our 2nd defensive stalwart, then fine, let's sign him up. As long as we can fill the holes we have on our roster talent-wise or skill-wise, do it. Andrea can do that, IMHO, in as little as 2-3 years. Granted he's probably going to be a project, but I wouldn't mind throwing him into the fire and seeing how he does...

[Storm Surge]

I don't like the Nowitzki comparison; from the little I've seen of him, I'd say he's more of an Arvydas Sabonis type player...

And like apostolic, I don't care what the "positions" are defined as. The NBA nowadays is more about filling roles than filling positions. I too would prefer a more classic definition of all the positions, but you can't be like JVG and refuse to adjust to the new NBA. The new NBA has freaking Boris Diaw playing center. Does that mean he's going to be a post presence? No, but he fills a role for the Suns.

Much in the same way, I think if we can fill our need ROLES and not necessarily worry about where it comes from position wise, we do it. If our PF can shoot 3s, then sign me up. If our 2 guard is our 2nd defensive stalwart, then fine, let's sign him up. As long as we can fill the holes we have on our roster talent-wise or skill-wise, do it. Andrea can do that, IMHO, in as little as 2-3 years. Granted he's probably going to be a project, but I wouldn't mind throwing him into the fire and seeing how he does...

Sabonis? That'd be sick

[giddyup]

Sabonis? That'd be sick
Yes-- a fever-induced hallulcination. How is the guy in the clips dribbling and driving and hitting rainbow jumpers in any way like Sabonis? Sabonis was a stiff with nifty passing and a couple of decent moves in the post.

[apostolic3]

Yes-- a fever-induced hallulcination. How is the guy in the clips dribbling and driving and hitting rainbow jumpers in any way like Sabonis? Sabonis was a stiff with nifty passing and a couple of decent moves in the post.
The NBA Sabonis was a shadow of his younger self. Many many people say we never got to see the real player over here because of his knee problems. I don't like the comparison because Sabonis was a center in every sense of the word while Bargnani is in no way a center.

[Fegwu]

If Bargnani proves be as good as Radmanovich in a couple of years I would consider him to be a success.His supposed strength is his outside shooting but he isn't thought to be a rebounder at all. I was surprised that he can block shots fairly well because most Euro players are not very good at it.
It seems he might look good in a Rockets uniform if he falls to us.

He seems like he has a similar body type to AK47 but with better ball handling and shooting skills. Obviously he is not as good on defense as AK but he seems like he could be an even more skilled version of Radmanovich. I hate to make all these comparisons but they really all kind of blend together. This clip shows some really great highlights with no crappy music.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8507760607728565556&q=bargnani&pl=true


I found the same things interesting about Bagnani.

One can not make much from just highlight reels but his shot blocking ability makes him a little odd imho. It seems like he can shoot better than AK though. I cannot think of any European player that has shown a knack of blocking shots save fotr AK47 and Darko. Maybe it is the Italian in the lad.

The question I have is this - will he be able to make the combine in Chicago as well as individual workouts? If he is a fake, that is when we will know.

P.S. Did anyone else notice Tiago Splitter in one of those videos? Can the guys ever put on weight? He has been on the radar for about two years now and it seems like his stock could be falling now.

[HAYJON02]

I've said many times earlier that the Horace Grant of the Bulls would fit perfect here ..... but Grant was better than Otis Thorpe.

I just disagree entirely.

A) Horace played with the Bulls. Can anyone remember what ELSE they had inside during their first run? Otis would've put up better numbers probably without Hakeem grabbing all those rebounds and scoring all those points.
B) Who did Horace Grant ever get traded for? Certainly never Clyde Drexler.

[giddyup]

The NBA Sabonis was a shadow of his younger self. Many many people say we never got to see the real player over here because of his knee problems. I don't like the comparison because Sabonis was a center in every sense of the word while Bargnani is in no way a center.
Well sure but nobody ever saw Sabonis do the things this kid does in this short video clip. I'm sure that Sabonis (like everyone) could move better when they were younger, but I don't see him putting the ball on the floor and slicing to the iron or coming off picks and launching rainbow jumpers.

They play different positions because they have differing size and skill-sets.

[peleincubus]

Well sure but nobody ever saw Sabonis do the things this kid does in this short video clip. I'm sure that Sabonis (like everyone) could move better when they were younger, but I don't see him putting the ball on the floor and slicing to the iron or coming off picks and launching rainbow jumpers.

They play different positions because they have differing size and skill-sets.


ive actually seen old videos of the guy and yes he did those things.

(im not being rude or anything but yeah ive actually seen him in old videos)

[peleincubus]

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=QHhnDBlBMEE&search=sabonis%20

he was "slicing to the iron" even when he was with the blazers and hitting 3's im sure he was a bit more athletic in his 20's.

[giddyup]

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=QHhnDBlBMEE&search=sabonis%20

he was "slicing to the iron" even when he was with the blazers and hitting 3's im sure he was a bit more athletic in his 20's.
95% of those plays highlighted took place in the paint but, yeah, he was a lot more athletic at one point. He can be on my team ANYTIME.

[michecon]

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=QHhnDBlBMEE&search=sabonis%20

he was "slicing to the iron" even when he was with the blazers and hitting 3's im sure he was a bit more athletic in his 20's.

Thanks for posting that. Sabas is one of my all-time favorite players. Coincidentally, he's also No. 11.

[sun12]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6413229403014366549&q=bargnani&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6131822744621417810&q=andrea+bargani

It looks like the guy has a good jump shot, can block some shots, but can't finish around the ring. He is not an inside force for sure.

I don't see him as a PF, his position would be SF, but if he can't defend SF, that would be a problem.

[Amel]

some more bargnani clips

Bargnani offensive rebound (vs. Napoli 2006)

http://rapidshare.de/files/16239359/Andrea_Bargnani_offensive_rebound.avi.html

Bargnani reverse dunk (vs Milano 2005)

http://rapidshare.de/files/16240200/Andrea_Bargnani_Reverse_Dunk___Foul.avi.html

Bargnani gets his dunk-layup blocked

http://195.56.77.209/top5/3-10649-dsl.wmv

Here's a clip of Bargnani's 25 points against Rome earlier this season (october 2005).

http://rapidshare.de/files/7328254/MagoBargnani.avi.html

[Amel]

man

this guys has mass and height

when he gets here and bulks up, gains muscle

he is going to be killer

[Smokey]

Sweet. November Rain.

I remember when Rasheed threw a towel at Sabonis. Rasheed is an idiot. No respect.

[apostolic3]

The clip of his 25 points was impressive. I counted 6 long jumpers, 3 drives to the hoop and 1 back to the basket "spin move" (more like a travel). Of the top 5-6 talked about in the draft, this guy looks like the best outside shooter except for Morrison.

[Rizzy]

I think after wasting a pick on Turkcan and again on Nachbar instead of Tayshaun Prince - who IIRC the Rox were also high on and may have had hm next on their draft board - they're going to be leery of your Euro project guys.

Boki wasn't a wasted pick!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPv59_T4uO0

[saleem]

Maybe Bargnani won't turn out to be a star, but his skill level seems higher than Nachbar and Turkcan. I think he could turn out to be as good as Radmanovich on offense or better along with decent shot blocking ability after some time.