Flags of Our Fathers

[Ottomaton]

Ok, here's the deal. Clint Eastwood is directing a two part film (http://www.flagsofourfathers.net/) based on a book of the same name about the Raising of the U.S. Flag at Iwo Jima.

The interesting part is the way the film is divided. The 1st and 2nd parts aren't split along chronological lines. Instead, the first part is told from the American viewpoint and the second from the Japanese.

Personally, I can't think of another major American film told from Japanese viewpoint, though there have been several from the German view, and I definately can't think of any other story on such an emotionally charged subject told from different views.

[KingCheetah]

I loved the way Neil Stephenson flipped back and forth between the Japanese and the US in Cryptonomicon ~ so IMHO it's great Clint is doing this and giving perspective from both sides. Certainly Clint Eastwood has the green light to do whatever the hell he wants anyway.

[SwoLy-D]

Man, I don't like Mr. Eastwood's raspy, old man voice. I don't want him to tell NO STORY. F*nk that!

[bigtexxx]

Well, every single one of the Japanese soldiers on the island died in that battle, so it might be somewhat of an anticlimactic ending.

[mc mark]

Wasn't "Tora Tora Tora" told somewhat from the Japanese viewpoint?

A great film!

[Saint Louis]

Well, every single one of the Japanese soldiers on the island died in that battle, so it might be somewhat of an anticlimactic ending.

The Japs thought they were fighting for a noble cause, and they didn't want to seem sympathetic to the enemy.

[Invisible Fan]

Anything put on Hollywood will be contorted and mutilated for box office glory.

If Clint tries to humanize the Japanese Army for Oscar contention, he's going to hear a mouthful from the Chinese government....

[Sishir Chang]

Personally, I can't think of another major American film told from Japanese viewpoint.

Memoirs of a Geisha.

[Sishir Chang]

The Japs thought they were fighting for a noble cause, and they didn't want to seem sympathetic to the enemy.

You are aware that calling someone Japanese a "Jap" is about on par with calling someone black "Ni^^er"

[Sishir Chang]

If Clint tries to humanize the Japanese Army for Oscar contention, he's going to hear a mouthful from the Chinese government....

I'm waiting for the barrage of invective that will come from Chinese posters here.

[wouldabeen23]

I loved the way Neil Stephenson flipped back and forth between the Japanese and the US in Cryptonomicon ~ so IMHO it's great Clint is doing this and giving perspective from both sides. Certainly Clint Eastwood has the green light to do whatever the hell he wants anyway.


What a great Book...I need to read it again

[droxford]

eh.... change my vote from "who cares" to "understand all viewpoints"

[Ottomaton]

Memoirs of a Geisha.

Ooops. I meant a WWII film from Japanese view.

As mentioned Tora! Tora! Tora! probably qualifies.

[Zac D]

Man, I don't like Mr. Eastwood's raspy, old man voice. I don't want him to tell NO STORY. F*nk that!

Wait a second. You DON'T like Clint Eastwood's voice? :eek:

[Saint Louis]

You are aware that calling someone Japanese a "Jap" is about on par with calling someone black "Ni^^er"

Pardon me for not being PC. I guess I watched too many John Wayne movies as a child.

[MR. MEOWGI]

I think it's great.

[Mr. Brightside]

Well, every single one of the Japanese soldiers on the island died in that battle, so it might be somewhat of an anticlimactic ending.


Damn, you just ruined the ending of the movie for me. :o

[underoverup]

You are aware that calling someone Japanese a "Jap" is about on par with calling someone black "Ni^^er"


Really? I thought Jap was like Brit or Yank. That's weird. :confused:

[Saint Louis]

Really? I thought Jap was like Brit or Yank. That's weird. :confused:

Maybe I should be more offended if someone calls me a Kraut?

Somebody needs to send me a scale on offensive terms. I've been told now that Japs, Orientals and Asians are all offensive.

What's left? Indigenous people of the islands of Japan? Although to me in historical reference Jap is to the Japanese army as Nazi is to the German army. I wouldn't call today's Japanese citizens Japs anymore then I'd call today's German citizens Nazis. But that is what they were to my elders when they were fighting WWII.

[Invisible Fan]

There were Anti-Jap posters during the war while Japanese Americans were being hauled away to internment camps. It went right along with the Yellow Plague paranoia (Kraut-Americans didn't have it that bad compared to Japanese Americans...) Most of the Jap-American citizens had their property unConstitutionally siezed from them and a majority died without any compensation from the government.

So Japanese Americans might find the term derrogatory while Japanese might not....

[IROC it]

Damn, you just ruined the ending of the movie for me. :o


I believe U.S. History class ruined the ending for me. ;)

[Saint Louis]

I believe U.S. History class ruined the ending for me. ;)

We always never made it to WWII in U.S. history class. Always got bogged down in junk like the Stamp Act and the Teapot Scandal.

[SamFisher]

There were Anti-Jap posters during the war .....

Where did they post? Newsreels?

[Saint Louis]

There were Anti-Jap posters during the war while Japanese Americans were being hauled away to internment camps. It went right along with the Yellow Plague paranoia (Kraut-Americans didn't have it that bad compared to Japanese Americans...) Most of the Jap-American citizens had their property unConstitutionally siezed from them and a majority died without any compensation from the government.

So Japanese Americans might find the term derrogatory while Japanese might not....

To World Wars with Germany on the "wrong side" did stamp out, a lot voluntarily, most of German-Americans old world culture. My great-grandparents stopped speaking German. All of my grandparents were born bi-lingual, but World War II ended what World War I started. The Lutheran church stopped using German in services during World War II. Canal St. in Houston was German St. until World War I. The road signs on U.S. 290 for New Berlin, TX were taken down during World War II. Washington Cemetary used to be the German cementary in Houston. There was a lot of suspicion of Americans of German ancestry in the World Wars but it was a lot easier for them to blend into American society. Did they have it as bad as Americans of Japanese decent, hell no. Sadly it all came down to outward appearance once again. Beauty is only skin deep, but it is also the difference between just getting looked at funny and being placed in an internment camp.

[Ottomaton]

Well, every single one of the Japanese soldiers on the island died in that battle, so it might be somewhat of an anticlimactic ending.

You know, everybody who went to see Titanic (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120338/) had to have a pretty good idea how it was going to end, but people still went. It was the top grossing film ever at the time, and may still be.

[Invisible Fan]

To World Wars with Germany on the "wrong side" did stamp out, a lot voluntarily, most of German-Americans old world culture. My great-grandparents stopped speaking German. All of my grandparents were born bi-lingual, but World War II ended what World War I started. The Lutheran church stopped using German in services during World War II. Canal St. in Houston was German St. until World War I. The road signs on U.S. 290 for New Berlin, TX were taken down during World War II. Washington Cemetary used to be the German cementary in Houston. There was a lot of suspicion of Americans of German ancestry in the World Wars but it was a lot easier for them to blend into American society. Did they have it as bad as Americans of Japanese decent, hell no. Sadly it all came down to outward appearance once again. Beauty is only skin deep, but it is also the difference between just getting looked at funny and being placed in an internment camp.

Yeah, Americans renamed sauerkraut as fast as liberty fries. It doesn't seem right when people have to give up or hide their culture, peaceably or not.

It's that quick response, to not be affiliated with the enemy, that gave the word Jap its derrogatory significance at the time.

Many Asian or Japanese Americans I know aren't offended about Jap being used to freely. It's probably more of a historical pit stop, if anything.

What bugs me whenever that period is brought up is that Korematsu vs. US was never overturned. You could have any future president decide that one group of Americans are hindering the war and a month later your neighbor of that color is gone. The system would be tied up years and years relying on that precedent while thousands of families are relocated to camps.

Sounds extreme or outdated, but it happened.

[Sishir Chang]

What's left? Indigenous people of the islands of Japan?
Have you considered "Japananese?"

Although to me in historical reference Jap is to the Japanese army as Nazi is to the German army. I wouldn't call today's Japanese citizens Japs anymore then I'd call today's German citizens Nazis. But that is what they were to my elders when they were fighting WWII.

Nazi wasn't a derogatory in itself since the National Socialist party was known as the Nazi party even in Germany. It wasn't derogatory term except for referring to the enemy political party and not an ethnicity. "Jap" was a shorthand slang term with negative connotations along with "Nip" as short for "Niponese" or 'Chink' for "Chinese" and are all offensize because they derogatory term at a whole ethnicity.

"Ni^^er" I believe comes from "Negro" reffering to dark coloration of Africans. While one might say that terms shouldn't be offensive because they come from slang shorthand the historical context is important. "Brit" or "Scot" don't have historical derogatory connotations.

[Sishir Chang]

What bugs me whenever that period is brought up is that Korematsu vs. US was never overturned. You could have any future president decide that one group of Americans are hindering the war and a month later your neighbor of that color is gone. The system would be tied up years and years relying on that precedent while thousands of families are relocated to camps.



I remember reading about this recently and the Korematsu conviction was overturned in 1984

http://www.aaba-bay.com/aaba/showpage.asp?code=korematsutribute2005

Korematsu's case stood for almost 40 years until Professor Peter Irons with the help of Aiko Herzig Yoshinaga, researching government's archives, stumbled upon secret Justice Department documents. Among them were memos written in 1943 and 1944 by Edward Ennis, the Justice Department attorney responsible for supervising the drafting of the government's brief. As Ennis began searching for evidence to support the Army's claim that the Internment was necessary and justified, he found precisely the opposite -- that J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, the FCC, the Office of Naval Intelligence and other authoritative intelligence agencies categorically denied that Japanese Americans had committed any wrong. Other memoranda characterized the government's claims that Japanese Americans were spying as "intentional falsehoods." These official reports were never presented to the Supreme Court, having been intentionally suppressed and, in one case, destroyed by setting the report afire.

It was on this basis -- governmental misconduct -- that a legal team of pro bono attorneys successfully reopened Korematsu's case in 1983, resulting in the erasure of his criminal conviction for defying the internment. During the litigation, Justice Department lawyers offered a pardon to Korematsu if he would agree to drop his lawsuit. In rejecting the offer, Kathryn Korematsu, his wife of 58 years remarked "Fred was not interested in a pardon from the government; instead, he always felt that it was the government who should seek a pardon from him and from Japanese Americans for the wrong that was committed."

In throwing out Korematsu's 40 year old criminal conviction, Judge Marilyn Hall Patel of the US District Court of the Northern District of California wrote:

"Korematsu remains on the pages of our legal and political history. As a legal precedent it is now recognized as having limited application. As a historical precedent it stands as a constant caution that in times of war or declared military necessity our institutions must be vigilant in protecting our constitutional guarantees. It stands as a caution that in times of distress the shield of military necessity and national security must not be used to protect governmental actions from close scrutiny and accountability.

It stands as a caution that in times of international hostility and antagonisms our institutions, legislative, executive and judicial, must be prepared to protect all citizens from the petty fears and prejudices that are so easily aroused."

I'm not sure if this means that original case precedent could be applied again but from what I gather any official attempt to imprison people just on the basis of ethnicity would be very difficult to legally undertake.

[Saint Louis]

Have you considered "Japananese?"


http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/54/039_31742.jpg

Remember what Sgt. Hulka said, “Lighten up Francis”.

[arno_ed]

It depends on how the portray the people.

For example, a couple of years ago there was a movie called "Der Untergang" and it was about the fall of hitler. It was an ok movie, altough critics complained that Hitler was to Friendly and humain in this movie. Which is not true, in this movie he was friendly ONCE, his secratary cried and he comforted her. The problem is that a lot of people do not want to see that Hitler was a human, they want to see him as an idiotic Demon kind of creature. And they want to think it could not happen again. he was an idiot, who did terrible things, but he was a human, and these things could happen again.

If they show a movie from the other stand points they do have to show the friendly and human side of the people. It that case i would defenitly want to see this movie.