Draft choice Kubiaks decision.

[Possum]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3587895.html

DENVER - The Vince Young-Reggie Bush debate will be decided by Gary Kubiak, who will be named the Texans' head coach after the Broncos' season ends. There is no way owner Bob McNair will force Kubiak to take a player he does not want with the first pick of the draft.

The Texans' new coach will get input from the team's personnel department, including general manager Charley Casserly. He will get input from his offensive assistants.

The worst mistake the Texans could make would be to listen to the fans and media, but that won't keep everyone from having an opinion.

Here's the bottom line: If Kubiak wants Young, the Texans will select Young. If he wants Bush, they will take Bush.

Bush is an incredible prospect, one of the best ever, according to NFL scouts who have been evaluating him for weeks because everyone knew he was coming out. Young is an incredible prospect, too, according to those who have just begun to study him closely.

The evaluation process will continue for weeks. Part of that process is Young and Bush undergoing one-on-one interviews with the Texans' brass, including McNair, Kubiak, Casserly, etc.

Bush will want to come to Houston because it means making more money than any rookie next season. Young wants to play for the Texans because they are his hometown team, and he loves his hometown. And, of course, he wants the largest contract, too.

No matter what anyone thinks right now, it shouldn't matter to the Texans. What really matters is how they evaluate Young and Bush, what kind of grades they give them and what the new coach wants to do.

So who is Kubiak most likely to pick?

[Kam]

Kubiak = aggie
VY = longhorn




kubiak = aggie = not the brightest mind.

kubiak will draft hell if know.

[gucci888]

I think this would be a good move. Kubiak knows that this pick could possibly make or break his headcoaching career. I thought one thing the Texans needed this summer was to have outside perspectives on the team (Reeves, Kubiak). I don't think Casserly and McNair have clear enough minds to figure out what moves to make to get this franchise over the hump.

[torque]

I think this would be a good move. Kubiak knows that this pick could possibly make or break his headcoaching career. I thought one thing the Texans needed this summer was to have outside perspectives on the team (Reeves, Kubiak). I don't think Casserly and McNair have clear enough minds to figure out what moves to make to get this franchise over the hump.
He will take Bush. No way a new coach comes in and says OK, lets trade the starting quarterback (who was drafted #1) and take a new one.

[MykTek]

agreed, he won't give up on Carr until atleast 1-2 seasons w/ him, so most likely it will be Bush....

[the futants]

why would kubiak all of a sudden take a risk on a running back with a #1 pick? he's proven time and again that he can make a 1500 yard rusher out of a 4th or 5th round back. his scheme does not require top-rank talent at that position. he relies on offensive line skills/techniques. have any of y'all actually watched the broncos play over the last decade??? i wouldn't count out the possibility of trading the pick for a o-line overhaul.
stay tuned...

[Biggienaz786]

Kubiak = aggie
VY = longhorn




kubiak = aggie = not the brightest mind.

kubiak will draft hell if know.

how many ex-longhorns are being considered for the job?
exactly.
as an aggie, he's definitely smarter than your burnt orange self.

[DaDakota]

Kubiak may trade down for some O-line help......


However, Carr is a Plummer type of QB...average at best, not a real winner....

You need a QB that will lead to win it all......RB's are easier to find....

Therefore the Texans will draft.......

Well, I know who they should draft, anyway.

DD

[gucci888]

He will take Bush. No way a new coach comes in and says OK, lets trade the starting quarterback (who was drafted #1) and take a new one.

What does that matter to Kubiak? He has no relationship/loyalty factor with Carr. My point is that this team needed a fresh outlook of the team, he shouldn't be worrying who we took w/ the #1 pick 4 years ago. That's one of the problems I think Casserly/McNair have, they are looking at their past to evaluate their future, they are loyal to Carr and could possibly be afraid of admitting they made a mistake.

I actually think this move benefits VY. McClain on his sports show was talking about how the Broncos never take RBs in the 1st Round, let alone the #1 overall pick.

[swilkins]

Look at the impact Kubiak has had on Plummer. I think Carr has more potential than Plummer. Sure Kubiak has made 4th and 5th round RB's look like stars. If he has a guy like Bush, the sky's the limit.

A rare opportunity for Kubiak indeed.

I like Vince, but I believe that Carr will show vast improvement with better coaching. I think our line needs 2 players. Release McKinney for cap. Move Hodgedon to center, pick up a LG in free agency. Draft the best RT available. Rivers has shown potential of late at TE. We could use a few draft picks to accomodate a 4-3 (DE) as well as a decent corner, we're going to be a much improved team.

If we can keep Davis at RB when we Reggie is in the slot and have Johnson at WR, we're going to be a dangerous team.

I feel optimistic on the direction we're going.

[hoang17]

how many ex-longhorns are being considered for the job?
exactly.
as an aggie, he's definitely smarter than your burnt orange self.

Were you guys even in a bowl game this year?
How many times in the last 6 years have you beaten UT?
How many 1st round draft picks came out of Aggie Land in the last 6 years?
Is your "star" QB going to even be drafted, let alone the QB position?

Exactly. :D

[swilkins]

Were you guys even in a bowl game this year?
How many times in the last 6 years have you beaten UT?
How many 1st round draft picks came out of Aggie Land in the last 6 years?
Is your "star" QB going to even be drafted, let alone the QB position?

Exactly. :D

I'm not an Aggie, but I think that Reggie McNeil has a chance in the NFL.

[bplld]

Denver stacks up on running backs just like the rockets stack up on injuries. Kubiak will go for Bush probably. He should take a good look at DD though. DD is a good running back, its possible he will be pleased with him enough to have the texans trade down for more picks.

[CometsWin]

why would kubiak all of a sudden take a risk on a running back with a #1 pick? he's proven time and again that he can make a 1500 yard rusher out of a 4th or 5th round back. his scheme does not require top-rank talent at that position. he relies on offensive line skills/techniques. have any of y'all actually watched the broncos play over the last decade??? i wouldn't count out the possibility of trading the pick for a o-line overhaul.
stay tuned...


That is a great point. It seems like RB's in Denver are interchangeable parts. I wouldn't be surprised if we traded down to #4 for Ferguson and got some extra picks.

[KaiSeR SoZe]

Kubiak has a bias.

[Rocket River]

Kubiak may trade down for some O-line help......


However, Carr is a Plummer type of QB...average at best, not a real winner....

You need a QB that will lead to win it all......RB's are easier to find....

Therefore the Texans will draft.......

Well, I know who they should draft, anyway.

DD


The Rushing game was not overly impressive last nite

Rocket River

[NIKEstrad]

how many ex-longhorns are being considered for the job?
exactly.
as an aggie, he's definitely smarter than your burnt orange self.

Jerry Gray. Next.

[Kam]

how many ex-longhorns are being considered for the job?
exactly.
as an aggie, he's definitely smarter than your burnt orange self.

hah, shows what you know.

i wear a t shirt if texas is good, an aggie shirt when they are good... if that happens.

[mogrod]

This is a good PR move for the Texans.

"Hey, if you don't like who we picked, it was the coach's fault." :D

[Rocket River]

It would be interesting if Kubiak goes against public opinion
considering
how much public Opinion got him his job

maybe Hypocritical

Rocket River

[Biggienaz786]

Were you guys even in a bowl game this year?
How many times in the last 6 years have you beaten UT?
How many 1st round draft picks came out of Aggie Land in the last 6 years?
Is your "star" QB going to even be drafted, let alone the QB position?

Exactly. :D


for the record, hoang, my sister went to A&M.

no they weren't in a bowl game. they had injuries all season, kinda like a team called the Rockets - maybe you've heard of them. the coaching was bad, as well.

UT has a great pool of talent, more talent than the Aggies. recruits consider UT much earlier than they consider A&M. the Aggies can't keep up w/ UT. Reggie McNeal is ONE Aggie. he's not the whole team. he can't throw it to himself to make sure the pass is not dropped. truth be told, if the Aggies had reggie had QB, RB, and WR, we'd be asking how many times has UT beaten A&M in the last 6 years, instead of the other way around.

going in the first round doesn't necessary mean you're a great nfl star. ask ryan leaf and tom brady. [and try reading other threads, while you're at it.]

and yes, reggie mcneal is expected to be drafted. i actually hope the texans draft him and reggie bush, b/c i think the two of them alone can lead us to the playoffs soon. i think mcneal is about as good at throwing as vince is, if not better, but vince is blessed w/ more talented receivers to throw to.

;)

[rocketteen]

Y does a legitimate football discussion have to get screwed up by some *****in' tsips, or worse, the tshirt variety. U want to start a pissing match about our 2 schools, start it, but don't hijack possum's thread...dumb sh*t. :mad:

[v3.0]

This is a good PR move for the Texans.

"Hey, if you don't like who we picked, it was the coach's fault." :D
That's been Casserly's line wherever he goes... :rolleyes:

[Biggienaz786]

i googled a lil bit and found this.

http://www.aggieathletics.com/pressRelease.php?PRID=10070

A&M Leads Big 12 with 42 Players on NFL Training Camp Rosters
For Immediate Release
Friday, August 5, 2005


COLLEGE STATION, Texas- With training camp underway for all of the NFL teams, 42 Texas A&M football players are listed on the various rosters. Texas A&M had 31 players on the 2004 NFL opening day lists.


Texas A&M shares the Big 12 Conference lead with Nebraska’s 42 players on training camp rosters.


Three Aggies are listed on the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots roster led by wide receiver and kick returner Bethel Johnson and defensive lineman Ty Warren. Offensive lineman Billy Yates was on the roster but did not appear in a game in 2004.


The Atlanta Falcons lead the way with five Aggies on the training camp roster. Defensive backs Jonte’ Buhl, Rich Coady, Byron Jones and Jason Webster are joined by defensive lineman Brandon Mitchell.


Seven Aggies off of the 2004 Texas A&M squad are battling for spots on NFL clubs. The two co-captains of the 2004 Aggie team, wide receiver Terrence Murphy and defensive lineman Mike Montgomery, were picked up by the Green Bay Packers. Murphy was a second-round pick and Montgomery was a sixth-round selection. Offensive lineman Geoff Hangartner was taken in the fifth round by the Carolina Panthers. Defensive backs Buhl and Jones were free agent signees with the Atlanta Falcons, while running back Keith Joseph signed with the New Orleans Saints and defensive lineman Marcus Jasmin signed with the Detroit Lions.


2005 TEXAS A&M PLAYERS ON NFL TRAINING CAMP ROSTERS-- 42

No. Name, Position, Team

#95 Sam Adams, DL, Buffalo Bills

#99 Rocky Bernard, DL, Seattle Seahawks

#47 Jonte’ Buhl, DB, Atlanta Falcons

#86 Dan Campbell, TE, Dallas Cowboys

#26 Rich Coady, DB, Atlanta Falcons

#81 Chris Cole, WR, Jacksonville Jaguars

#22 Sammy Davis, DB, San Diego Chargers

#98 Ron Edwards, DL, Buffalo Bills

#89 Robert Ferguson, WR, Green Bay Packers

#92 Ronald Flemons, DL, Seattle Seahawks

#26 Aaron Glenn, DB, Dallas Cowboys

#46 Jason Glenn, LB, Miami Dolphins

#82 Dante Hall, WR, Kansas City Chiefs

#63 Geoff Hangartner, OL, Carolina Panthers

#48 Warrick Holdman, LB, Washington Redskins

#22 Michael Jameson, DB, Cleveland Browns

#91 Marcus Jasmin, DL, Detroit Lions

#95 Edward Jasper, DL, Oakland Raiders

#81 Bethel Johnson, WR, New England Patriots

#40 Byron Jones, DB, Atlanta Falcons

#45 Keith Joseph, RB, New Orleans Saints

#48 Terrence Kiel, DB, San Diego Chargers

#9 Shane Lechler, P, Oakland Raiders

#76 Jason Mathews, OL, Tennessee Titans

#68 Seth McKinney, OL, Miami Dolphins

#76 Steve McKinney, OL, Houston Texans

#24 Ray Mickens, DB, New York Jets

#92 Brandon Mitchell, DL, Atlanta Falcons

#96 Mike Montgomery, DL, Green Bay Packers

#67 Don Muhlbach, DS, Detroit Lions

#86 Terrence Murphy, WR, Green Bay Packers

#59 Dat Nguyen, LB, Dallas Cowboys

#66 Alan Reuber, OL, Arizona Cardinals

#14 Cody Scates, P, Houston Texans

#73 Cameron Spikes, OL, Denver Broncos

#86 Jamaar Taylor, WR, New York Giants

#66 Rex Tucker, OL, St. Louis Rams

#94 Ty Warren, DL, New England Patriots

#36 Jason Webster, DB, Atlanta Falcons

#69 Taylor Whitley, OL, Miami Dolphins

#94 Pat Williams, DL, Minnesota Vikings

#74 Billy Yates, OL, New England Patriots


Aggies on NFL Coaching Staffs:

Dennis Allen, Atlanta Falcons (Defensive Assistant)

Gary Kubiak, Denver Broncos (Offensive Coordinator)

Gary Reynolds, Seattle Seahawks (Quality Control/Offense)

Zerick Rollins, Seattle Seahawks (Defensive Line/Quality Control)



As of Aug. 5, 2005



Big 12 Rankings

Texas A&M 42

Nebraska 42

Oklahoma 35

Kansas State 34

Colorado 33

Texas 25

Missouri 17

Oklahoma State 14

Texas Tech 14

Baylor 11

Kansas 9

Iowa State 8

[v3.0]

Y does a legitimate football discussion have to get screwed up by some *****in' tsips, or worse, the tshirt variety. U want to start a pissing match about our 2 schools, start it, but don't hijack possum's thread...dumb sh*t. :mad:
Elaine: "Well stop being such a baby!"
Jerry: "YOU'RE A BABY!"
Elaine: "YOU'RE A BABY!"

[DaDakota]

i googled a lil bit and found this.

http://www.aggieathletics.com/pressRelease.php?PRID=10070

A&M Leads Big 12 with 42 Players on NFL Training Camp Rosters
For Immediate Release
Friday, August 5, 2005

COLLEGE STATION, Texas- With training camp underway for all of the NFL teams, 42 Texas A&M football players are listed on the various rosters. Texas A&M had 31 players on the 2004 NFL opening day lists.



And they still can't win? Amazing.

;)

[Kam]

the number 76 guy that plays for the Texans suck.

[NIKEstrad]

And they still can't win? Amazing.

;)

Yeah, umm, I'm not exactly sure what he's trying to prove.

I googled a little bit and found this (http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/010506aaa.html)
off the Big 12 website.

[ima_drummer2k]

truth be told, if the Aggies had reggie had QB, RB, and WR, we'd be asking how many times has UT beaten A&M in the last 6 years, instead of the other way around.
That is, if he didn't decide to not suit up for the game so he wouldn't get hurt before the combine....

[the futants]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2293458

Bush turned pro after assurance of No. 1 pick
ESPN.com news services
click this

Reggie Bush has long been assumed the top pick in the NFL draft, but after Vince Young's performance in the Rose Bowl, the Trojans wanted some assurance before the Heisman Trophy winner agreed to forgo his senior season.

Reggie Bush
Bush

USC sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that coach Pete Carroll gave his blessing for Bush to turn pro only after being assured by Texans owner Bob McNair that the running back would be the No. 1 pick in the draft.

Young, a Texas native, led his Longhorns to a victory over the favored Trojans in the national championship and ignited a public frenzy demanding Houston select the quarterback instead of Bush.

However, the Texans appear to be sticking with their initial plan of drafting the running back -- a preference of the top candidate to become their head coach.

A Broncos source told Mortensen that Gary Kubiak, Denver's offensive coordinator and the favorite for the Texans' head coaching post, believes current Houston quarterback David Carr can flourish with a new offense headlined by Bush and wide receiver Andre Johnson.

Kubiak, a Houston native, is widely considered the likely successor to Dom Capers, who was fired as Texans coach on Jan. 2, one day after finishing a 2-14 season with a loss at San Francisco.

However, under NFL tampering rules, the Texans cannot comment about or finalize any moves involving Kubiak until the Broncos' season is over. Denver advanced to the AFC Championship Game with a 27-13 win over the New England Patriots on Saturday.

[mogrod]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2293458

Bush turned pro after assurance of No. 1 pick

You know, FSN kept promoting (during the Rockets' game) that they had a story about Vince Young having second thoughts about coming out. I didn't see the story after the game, but could these two go hand in hand together?

[Kam]

You know, FSN kept promoting (during the Rockets' game) that they had a story about Vince Young having second thoughts about coming out. I didn't see the story after the game, but could these two go hand in hand together?


I don't think he could go back to Texas though, because he hired an agent already.

[gucci888]

You know, FSN kept promoting (during the Rockets' game) that they had a story about Vince Young having second thoughts about coming out. I didn't see the story after the game, but could these two go hand in hand together?

That was a small rumor that was going around a week ago.

It would be interesting if Kubiak goes against public opinion
considering
how much public Opinion got him his job

maybe Hypocritical

Rocket River

I was thinking the same thing. Even though I agree that he shouldn't pick for the popularity, but Kubiak would be an instant favorite if he picked VY and some might instantly hate if he picked Bush (it's not right, but it could happen).

Kubiak sure does have a lot of work to do, and he hasn't even gotten hired yet.

[Desert Scar]

...
I was thinking the same thing. Even though I agree that he shouldn't pick for the popularity, but Kubiak would be an instant favorite if he picked VY and some might instantly hate if he picked Bush (it's not right, but it could happen).

Kubiak sure does have a lot of work to do, and he hasn't even gotten hired yet.

In fairness, I'd say 33% of the Texan fan base would hate to have their QB be a Longhorn who just lead his team to a perfect season and national championship. There is a lot of very negative UT sentiment, particularly in Texas. How many other universities inspire others to try to mock their symbols and such (or even are aware of them). Duke basketball is probably about it that creates the same type of resentment.

It will be a polorizing draft one way or the other.

[xcomputerman]

I say public opinion should be irrelevant. The public is very, very fickle They'll whine for a little while after we select Bush. Then when we start winning games everybody will forget who Vince Young is and start calling for the Texans to erect a monument to Bush outside Reliant stadium.

Mark my words. Things can change very dramatically in a matter of months.

[swilkins]

I say public opinion should be irrelevant. The public is very, very fickle They'll whine for a little while after we select Bush. Then when we start winning games everybody will forget who Vince Young is and start calling for the Texans to erect a monument to Bush outside Reliant stadium.

Mark my words. Things can change very dramatically in a matter of months.

This is so true.

[Desert Scar]

Or when VY leads Tenn or NO to the playoffs before the Texans see a winning season they will take a generation to get over it.

The outcome is more important, no one knows for sure what will happen.

Kubiak knows the important and rarity of a QB with supreme talent and leadership skills. Juts have to wait and see.

[RocketManJosh]

Kubiak knows the important and rarity of a QB with supreme talent and leadership skills. Juts have to wait and see.

This is one statement I think we can all agree on. However, outside of the biased Longhorn Lovin faithful, most scouts and people that decide which QBs have supreme talent and leadership skills don't even have VY as the #1 QB in the draft let alone the #1 overall player. Vince will be a top 5 pick, but I don't believe there is anyway that he even goes in the top 2.

[VooDooPope]

This is one statement I think we can all agree on. However, outside of the biased Longhorn Lovin faithful, most scouts and people that decide which QBs have supreme talent and leadership skills don't even have VY as the #1 QB in the draft let alone the #1 overall player. Vince will be a top 5 pick, but I don't believe there is anyway that he even goes in the top 2.

Link to some proof that most scouts and people who decided don't have Vince as the #1 QB in the draft? I keep hearing them talk about Vince on the national broadcasts but I don't hear much Matt talk (even though I think he'll be a good NFL QB).

[nWo34Life]

I'm glad Kubiak's making the choice instead of Capers. Whatever decision he makes, I will deal with it. (shhhhh.....go Bush).

[Cohen]

This is one statement I think we can all agree on. However, outside of the biased Longhorn Lovin faithful, most scouts and people that decide which QBs have supreme talent and leadership skills don't even have VY as the #1 QB in the draft let alone the #1 overall player. Vince will be a top 5 pick, but I don't believe there is anyway that he even goes in the top 2.


Even if this happens to be true, these 'experts' don't have too good atrack record recently WRT to Vince, UT, Bush, and SC.

It's the players themselves decide who has supreme talent.

[Agent27]

I keep hearing them talk about Vince on the national broadcasts but I don't hear much Matt talk (even though I think he'll be a good NFL QB).

Matt had his period of being hyped. Bush had the spotlight on him most of this year. It's just Vince's turn. Vince is the new thing and Matt and Reggie had already been done before. That's it. It has absolutely no bearing on how they're ranked or where they'll go in the draft.

[Groogrux]

It will be a polorizing draft one way or the other.

And I'm afraid it's going to diminish my love for the Texans as well. I'm already sick and ****ing tired of both sides of the coin and the "you're a moron if you want Bush" or "you're a close-minded idiot homer if you want VY" crap. And you know it won't end when the draft is over, either. Whichever player is taken, those who advocated for the other side will probably end up rooting for the drafted player to fail so they can have the pleasure of saying "I told you so" three years down the line.

It's sad that most people cannot appreciate the position this organization is in rather than criticizing and insulting those who have a different opinion than them. This team is starting over one way or another. We're going to have an exciting new coach along with either a possibly great playmaker at RB or a possibly great revolutionary player QB. Instead of acting like idiots, why can't we just enjoy the position we're in? Listening to my fellow Texan fans act like retards doesn't really make me want to share my Sundays with them.

[DaDakota]

It's sad that most people cannot appreciate the position this organization is in rather than criticizing and insulting those who have a different opinion than them. This team is starting over one way or another.


I think it is precisely BECAUSE they are starting over and in this position again that fans are disgruntled.

Personally, I have only followed them with a passing interest, as I just could not get into them, and have not followed any NFL team since the Oilers left.

If they draft Vince, I will immediatly become enamored with the team, if they draft Reggie, I will still follow them somewhat like I do now.

I think there are a lot of old Oiler fans who feel the same.

DD

[Groogrux]

I think it is precisely BECAUSE they are starting over and in this position again that fans are disgruntled.

Well, instead of whining about taking the person that's not their personal choice, why can't people appreciate the fact that we're choosing between two players that are widely considered to have almost unheard of upside. I mean, we could've been there last year and pinning our hopes on Alex Smith or Ronnie Brown to save this franchise.

[ima_drummer2k]

Personally, I have only followed them with a passing interest, as I just could not get into them, and have not followed any NFL team since the Oilers left.

If they draft Vince, I will immediatly become enamored with the team, if they draft Reggie, I will still follow them somewhat like I do now.
Well by all means let's draft VY so that DD and all the other fair-weather fans will have a reason to grace us real Texan fans with their presence on the bandwagon! Unless we have another losing season that is...

DD, no offense to you personally, but we don't need fans like you. The Texans should cater to their real fans, not their casual passing interest fans.

[DaDakota]

Well, instead of whining about taking the person that's not their personal choice, why can't people appreciate the fact that we're choosing between two players that are widely considered to have almost unheard of upside. I mean, we could've been there last year and pinning our hopes on Alex Smith or Ronnie Brown to save this franchise.

People view things differently...I think it is a great position to be in, but the history of the franchise and their choices has not been good, maybe people feel they will screw this one up too?

Also, a lot of people, including me, think that drafting a "game changing" QB is more valuable then a "game changing" RB.

Just a debate......let's take this to the D&D....oh wait...we can't.

:D

DD

[DaDakota]

DD, no offense to you personally, but we don't need fans like you. The Texans should cater to their real fans, not their casual passing interest fans.

No offense taken, I am merely stating that a lot of people have not embraced the Texans yet, a good many have, but drafting a local hero is good marketing, and would bring a lot more fans to the teams side.

If you think that the Texans don't consider this, then I think you are mistaken.....at the end of the day they are in it to make money.

All things being equal...money rules the day.

DD

[reggietodd]

And I'm afraid it's going to diminish my love for the Texans as well. I'm already sick and ****ing tired of both sides of the coin and the "you're a moron if you want Bush" or "you're a close-minded idiot homer if you want VY" crap. And you know it won't end when the draft is over, either. Whichever player is taken, those who advocated for the other side will probably end up rooting for the drafted player to fail so they can have the pleasure of saying "I told you so" three years down the line.

It's sad that most people cannot appreciate the position this organization is in rather than criticizing and insulting those who have a different opinion than them. This team is starting over one way or another. We're going to have an exciting new coach along with either a possibly great playmaker at RB or a possibly great revolutionary player QB. Instead of acting like idiots, why can't we just enjoy the position we're in? Listening to my fellow Texan fans act like retards doesn't really make me want to share my Sundays with them.

This post should be put into all VY/RB threads. And then they should be locked.

[ima_drummer2k]

No offense taken, I am merely stating that a lot of people have not embraced the Texans yet, a good many have, but drafting a local hero is good marketing, and would bring a lot more fans to the teams side.
MANY more people have than haven't. The Texans already have PLENTY of fans. Have you tried to get season tickets lately?

All I'm saying is the Texans have to do what they think will help them win, not what they think will convert a small portion of Houstonians who don't care about the Texans.

[MadMax]

MANY more people have than haven't. The Texans already have PLENTY of fans. Have you tried to get season tickets lately?

All I'm saying is the Texans have to do what they think will help them win, not what they think will convert a small portion of Houstonians who don't care about the Texans.

but it's not just Houstonians.

McNair's goal for the Texans is to have them be recognized as Texas' Team. He said the Cowboys can be America's Team...he wants to be Texas' Team. VY is a step in that direction.

and sellouts won't last forever. this franchise has enjoyed a nice little honeymoon phase. it's eroding quickly.

[msn]

All things being equal...money rules the day.
The funny thing is, many of the same fans who are clamoring for VY are often all over franchise management--in any sport--for choosing "money" over "winning" (as if the two were mutually exclusive).

[bigtexxx]

And I'm afraid it's going to diminish my love for the Texans as well. I'm already sick and ****ing tired of both sides of the coin and the "you're a moron if you want Bush" or "you're a close-minded idiot homer if you want VY" crap. And you know it won't end when the draft is over, either. Whichever player is taken, those who advocated for the other side will probably end up rooting for the drafted player to fail so they can have the pleasure of saying "I told you so" three years down the line.


No offense buddy, but do you think that if you didn't spend >10 hours per day on internet message boards that you would still be sick and tired of hearing about it?

[Groogrux]

No offense buddy, but do you think that if you didn't spend >10 hours per day on internet message boards that you would still be sick and tired of hearing about it?

Well, duh.

[ima_drummer2k]

but it's not just Houstonians.

McNair's goal for the Texans is to have them be recognized as Texas' Team. He said the Cowboys can be America's Team...he wants to be Texas' Team. VY is a step in that direction.
I submit to you that winning will get us there faster than a local-heros-only draft policy.

If you think drafting VY is the right decision because you think he's got more (on the field) upside, I'm fine with that. But if you think drafting VY is the right decision because it would be better for marketing, that's where I have a problem.

Football is about winning, not marketing.

[DaDakota]

I submit to you that winning will get us there faster than a local-heros-only draft policy.

Football is about winning, not marketing.

No, being a fan is about the passion for the team, right now, the Houston Texans are a niche team, with a decent (albiet eroding) fan base in Houston Texas.

In all other cities across Texas the Dallas Cowboys DOMINATE the market.

Drafting Vince Young gets you a LOT more interest in the rest of the state, and that speaks volumes.

DD

[Groogrux]

Well, duh.

BTW, I was just trying to be funny.

I was sick and tired of it on Thursday, January 5. Driving home from work, I heard two callers, one advocating each player, say the same thing we've heard and read ever since then. It's been annoying from day one.

[Master Baiter]

I think I'm starting to want the Texans to draft Bush just because everyone else wants Young. I don't see how yall can talk about it so much. Its disturbing.

[stevel]

I think it is precisely BECAUSE they are starting over and in this position again that fans are disgruntled.

Personally, I have only followed them with a passing interest, as I just could not get into them, and have not followed any NFL team since the Oilers left.

If they draft Vince, I will immediatly become enamored with the team, if they draft Reggie, I will still follow them somewhat like I do now.

I think there are a lot of old Oiler fans who feel the same.

DD

I find this particular statement interesting because you have been very anti-Carr. If you only follow them with passing interest, how can you determine that he will never be anything better than average or medicore, as you have stated in many previous threads? You have said that Carr has shown you little if anything in his 4 years, how many games have you actually watched from beginning to end in those 4 years to help you come to this judgement? Again, I do not love Carr, but I refuse to judge how good he is or can be based on what I have seen (and I have watched every game) because he has had NO help from the team during his tenure.

[DaDakota]

I find this particular statement interesting because you have been very anti-Carr. If you only follow them with passing interest, how can you determine that he will never be anything better than average or medicore, as you have stated in many previous threads? You have said that Carr has shown you little if anything in his 4 years, how many games have you actually watched from beginning to end in those 4 years to help you come to this judgement? Again, I do not love Carr, but I refuse to judge how good he is or can be based on what I have seen (and I have watched every game) because he has had NO help from the team during his tenure.

I don't necessarily root for them, but I am still addicted to watching the sport....and Andre Johnson was on my fantasy team...so I watch the Texans...VERY closely.

DD

[ima_drummer2k]

No, being a fan is about the passion for the team, right now, the Houston Texans are a niche team, with a decent (albiet eroding) fan base in Houston Texas.

In all other cities across Texas the Dallas Cowboys DOMINATE the market.

Drafting Vince Young gets you a LOT more interest in the rest of the state, and that speaks volumes.
But you're talking about marketing, I'm more concerned about WINNING.

Ugh, I give up.

[DaDakota]

But you're talking about marketing, I'm more concerned about WINNING.

Ugh, I give up.

No doubt, winning is crucial, but even when the Oilers were winning they were still 2nd fiddle to the Cowboys.

Let me ask you this:

Which would get the team more money?

Winning with Reggie Bush, or winning with Vince Young?

I contend that the latter makes your team a LOT more valuable and thus increases revenues....and ultimately THAT is what drives the business decision makers.
DD

[stevel]

I don't necessarily root for them, but I am still addicted to watching the sport....and Andre Johnson was on my fantasy team...so I watch the Texans...VERY closely.

DD

Then you know we have 1 WR that is good, and that Bradford and Gaffney are mediocre at best. You know we don't have a TE that is a factor in the passing game. You know that we have one of the worst pass blokcing O-lines in the history of the game, and you know the Carr has been completely handcuffed by the former coaching staff and by the lack of talent around him. I am just curious how you have come to your conclusions about him. I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just curious. I think no matter how gifted the QB is, he has to have help to succeed. Young and Montana had a laundry list of players around them that were excellent. As does Manning, Palmer, etc..

[swilkins]

I don't want a coach who bases his decision on public opinion. When coaches are interviewed, they discuss their philosophy, strategy, as well as the players needed to fulfill the model. McNair will base his decision on what he feels will allow the team to start winning as soon as possible.

If Kubiak is our man, then let Kubiak pick whoever he feels will make us successful. Trust your coach and team and support them no matter who he selects, whether it's Bush or Young. Give it a chance, because that's what you're going to get for at least 3 seasons.

The most talented players can fail in the wrong system and the right system will fail without the right talent.

[stevel]

No doubt, winning is crucial, but even when the Oilers were winning they were still 2nd fiddle to the Cowboys.

Let me ask you this:

Which would get the team more money?

Winning with Reggie Bush, or winning with Vince Young?

I contend that the latter makes your team a LOT more valuable and thus increases revenues....and ultimately THAT is what drives the business decision makers.
DD

I agree with you in principle, but nothing sells more than winning football games. The Texans already sell out every game.

[MadMax]

I submit to you that winning will get us there faster than a local-heros-only draft policy.

If you think drafting VY is the right decision because you think he's got more (on the field) upside, I'm fine with that. But if you think drafting VY is the right decision because it would be better for marketing, that's where I have a problem.

Football is about winning, not marketing.

i think VY has the potential to be both...in a very special way. a very unique way. it's swinging for the fences, i'll grant you.

[DaDakota]

The Texans already sell out every game.

They are teetering on not selling out though, and one more losing season will spell real trouble for them.

Houston sports fans are fickle, and the honeymoon is over......

DD

[DaDakota]

Drummer,

I think drafting VY is the right decision both football wise and marketing wise....thus the reason I am 100% behind him.

Getting a QB with freakish athletic ability and with a winning attitude is a lot harder than getting the same in a RB.

How many RB led teams won the big one?

OJ, Barry Sanders etc...etc..etc...

The QB is the leader of the team....even Bill Walsh agrees with drafting VY.....

DD

[stevel]

They are teetering on not selling out though, and one more losing season will spell real trouble for them.
DD

Could be, but I still think winning is the best medicine for that problem.

[Smokey]

Once the guaranteed sellouts are over (how many years left?) and if the team isn't winning, it will almost be like the Astrodome (almost cause I doubt crowds will be that pathetic again). And if the game is soldout, it doesn't mean people are actually attending.

[MadMax]

Could be, but I still think winning is the best medicine for that problem.

who doesn't agree with that statement?? there's no question you're right.

but you're assuming reggie means wins and VY doesn't. i don't get it. i don't think you can guarantee wins either way.

[kaleidosky]

Drummer,

I think drafting VY is the right decision both football wise and marketing wise....thus the reason I am 100% behind him.

Getting a QB with freakish athletic ability and with a winning attitude is a lot harder than getting the same in a RB.

How many RB led teams won the big one?

OJ, Barry Sanders etc...etc..etc...

The QB is the leader of the team....even Bill Walsh agrees with drafting VY.....

DD


To be fair, you're leaving off RBs.

I think you could say Terrell Davis led his team more than Elway at that point. Possibly Emmitt too.

IF Bush turns into a hall of famer...we may look at Carr/Bush/AJ like Aikman/Emmitt/Irvin. I don't think Carr is necessarily as good as Aikman was.. but don't underestimate what he can do with those weapons.

We keep saying "let's see Carr with an o-line". How about if he has an o-line to protect him...and then adds a super-explosive RB to the mix? Now suddenly that's 2 things opening it up for him, as opposed to 0 currently.



But really I'm just saying you're naming the RB's that didn't win one, while there are many who did. The ones who didn't were the ones without more talent around them, more often (i.e. Sanders); while the ones who did were the ones with at least something around them.

[stevel]

OJ, Barry Sanders etc...etc..etc...

The QB is the leader of the team....even Bill Walsh agrees with drafting VY.....

DD

Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Moon, maybe Elway if not for TD, Manning (so far), etc... etc... etc...

I think the ideal situation is for the QB to be the leader, but I don't think the QB was the leader for the Ravens team that won, the Redkins (they used three different QBs that had not had stellar careers), ect...

[KingCheetah]

Houston sports fans are fickle, and the honeymoon is over......

DD

So true, so true...

[stevel]

who doesn't agree with that statement?? there's no question you're right.

but you're assuming reggie means wins and VY doesn't. i don't get it. i don't think you can guarantee wins either way.

I not assuming either one guarantees wins. I felt like DD was saying VY would guarantee sellouts. He may extend the honeymoon for a little while though.

I must admit I feel like either Bush/Carr or trading down (if we get enough in return) would be the fastest path to a winning team though, just my 2 cents. And that is not a slap at VY, I just think he will need a little time, plust the team will still have a ton of holes. I do know RB is not a need, but more playmakers on offense is a need and whether he runs inside, outside, or is out at WR Bush is a playmaker.

[solid]

The most talented players can fail in the wrong system and the right system will fail without the right talent.

Very, very important point. I want the "right fit."

[stevel]

Huge point^^^^! Like Calvin used to say, "All teams aren't for all players"