[Justice-Chron] Squeeze play catches Bags in the middle

[Furious Jam]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/3579305.html

Trouble in paradise. Sounds like the Astros brass shares many of the doubts about Bagwell on this board. Oh well, at least spring training should be interesting...

Squeeze play catches Bags in the middle

By RICHARD JUSTICE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Jeff Bagwell was back at work Tuesday morning. Running. Lifting weights. Swinging a bat.

"Nothing is going to keep me from attempting to play baseball next season," he said.

He let that thought hang in the air. He seemed defiant.

"Nothing," he said again.

Can he still be productive? Can he still be Jeff Bagwell?

"There's no question in my mind I can hit," he said. "It's whether or not I can throw for a full season. Everything has gone exactly the way I thought it should. I'm getting stronger. Am I able to throw 120 feet? No. Am I making progress? Very much so.

"I'm going to try and play baseball at spring training. There's no getting around that. Unless something major happens, I'll be there."

If you think this is what the Astros were hoping to hear, guess again. They apparently would prefer he went away.

Astros eye insurance claim

According to Bagwell and his agent, Barry Axelrod, the Astros want him to announce he can no longer play, that his right shoulder is forcing him to give up this comeback attempt.

Then and only then can the Astros collect on an insurance policy that will pay about $15.6 million of the approximately $17 million Bagwell is owed for the 2006 season.

The Astros apparently have been pushing him in this direction since the end of last season. With the Jan. 31 deadline for filing the insurance claim approaching, they've begun to push harder.

Astros general manager Tim Purpura said the issue is more complicated.

"We're trying to get some objective information," he said. "A healthy Jeff Bagwell is what we want. If he can't be a full-time player, we have to figure out if we can collect on the insurance or not."

If Bagwell steps onto the field at spring training, the Astros may not be able to collect on the policy.

Road trip not icon's idea

Bagwell will see renowned orthopedist Dr. James Andrews on Thursday in Birmingham, Ala. That trip had been uncertain after Andrews suffered a heart attack over the weekend. It was finalized Tuesday afternoon. Bagwell is going because the Astros insist.

Purpura said it's to get an evaluation of the bum shoulder. Bagwell, 37, believes it could be to build a case that he no longer can be an everyday player.

Either way, he sees the whole thing as a waste of time.

"I don't know Dr. Andrews," Bagwell said, "but I'm pretty sure he's going to say, 'You have a bad shoulder, sir.' I already know that. That doesn't mean I can't play. No matter what he says, I'm still going to go to spring training to play baseball."

To Astros owner Drayton McLane, the issue is simple. He apparently doesn't believe Bagwell will be a $17 million player in 2006. He's not sentimental with so much money on the line.

McLane was out of the country and unavailable for comment Tuesday.

"I don't blame them," Axelrod said. "But the fact is, Jeff has a contract. Whether the Astros are happy about it is not the point."

The point is simple. Bagwell wants to play. He believes he can play. He has earned the right to try. After 15 seasons, 449 home runs, 1,529 RBIs and 2,150 games, he doesn't believe he's done.

Before McLane presses him to quit, he might want to remind himself that Bagwell — and Craig Biggio — have set the tone for this decade of success.

They're the ones who policed the clubhouse, produced on the field, deflected credit to others in the good times and accepted blame in the bad times.

They're the foundation for everything this franchise has accomplished. They're huge reasons the Astros have won and revenues have skyrocketed.

Bagwell was underpaid at least four years before he was overpaid. He signed a long-term deal that prevented him from going on the open market.

Then he got hurt. Such is the risk of guaranteed money.

Few franchises have had two players as good as Bagwell and Biggio. Stat guru Bill James rates both of them among the 50 best players of all-time. Both should have some say in how they leave.

If McLane wants to pay Bagwell less money, if he wants to reconfigure the deal, he should say so. He also should remember Bagwell has deferred millions over the years to give McLane the flexibility to add players.

Now what Bagwell wants is the chance to try one last time. He might never hit 47 home runs again, but he's confident he has plenty left in the tank.

"I think they're trying to make me decide today," he said. "I can't do that. I'm not so sure that makes them happy. But that's just the way it is."

His salary also needs to be seen in context. He signed a five-year, $85 million deal in December 2000. That was the month Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez and Mike Hampton got insane contracts.

Those contracts look ridiculous even by today's ridiculous standards. And because Bagwell agreed to defer large portions during the early years, the salaries are going to be inflated in the later years.

Before this gets ugly — and it could get ugly as each side presses its case — the signing of veteran outfielder Preston Wilson indicates where the Astros believe this is headed.

If the Astros thought Bagwell would be in uniform, Wilson wouldn't have been signed.

Axelrod casually mentioned the possibility of trading Bagwell to an American League team. The Astros would have to pick up a huge portion of the remainder of the contract and then get Bagwell's permission. Other teams likely would see him as a risk. For now, the Astros seem committed to pursuing the insurance option.

Bagwell, typically stoic, always has understood there was a business side to the game. He understands the business side has been good to him.

He's somewhere between hurt and angry at how it has played out.

"I didn't go back to them in '97 or '98 or '99 and say, 'I want to change my contract. I'm not getting paid enough,' " he said.

Purpura understands Bagwell's frustration.

"It's a tough situation," Purpura said. "You're torn in both directions. You understand the baseball side. We all know what he has meant to this franchise. There's also a business side. Our payroll is right around $90 million. That's a legitimate issue as well. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out."

Bagwell told Purpura last year that he wasn't sure how much his shoulder would allow him to do. He promised he never would do anything to embarrass either himself or the franchise. I'd trust him to keep his word.

richard.justice@chron.com

[Raven Lunatic]

I wonder what the legal possibilities if Bagwell goes to this specialist and the specialist declares him incapable of playing baseball? Would the Astros have some means of forcing the retirement? I doubt they would, especially since it looks like it would result in terrible PR backlash considering Bagwell's tone in this article...but I was curious.

[Aceshigh7]

Let Bagwell try to come back on his own terms. He's earned that right. I'm tired of the Astros trying to get off cheap.

[Furious Jam]

I wonder what the legal possibilities if Bagwell goes to this specialist and the specialist declares him incapable of playing baseball? Would the Astros have some means of forcing the retirement? I doubt they would, especially since it looks like it would result in terrible PR backlash considering Bagwell's tone in this article...but I was curious.

You'd have to look at the terms of his contract, but I doubt that there's anything in there that would force him to retire based upon the opinion of one doctor.

[RocketMan Tex]

Let Bagwell try to come back on his own terms. He's earned that right. I'm tired of the Astros trying to get off cheap.

I agree with you 110%. He has most definitely earned that right. I also feel that Bagwell, his agent, and the Astros front office need to come to some kind of an agreement on milestones (for lack of a better word) that Bagwell needs to reach in order for a decision to be made. For example, if Bagwell cannot throw a baseball from first to third before spring training starts, do you declare him unable to play? If he can't throw that far before opening day? Some kind of consensus has to be reached.

[DaDakota]

Wow,

That sucks.....but totally understandable, they probably want the money to pay Roger in May...

:D

I wish they gave an update on his throwing.....not much info on his rehab.

DD

[ArtV]

^ According to the report Jeff says he can't make the throw from 1st to 3rd.

"Am I able to throw 120 feet? No."

[pgabriel]

Richard Justice was talking about this today. He's probably still on 610, some may can catch some more converstation at this point. When I was listening he was driving home the point that insurance will not cover Bagwell contract, talking about how hard it was to get Albert Belle's contract paid. And if you guys remember, there was no doubt Belle's career was over.

[ROCKSS]

Is this the last year of his contract? If it is, the Astros need to do the right thing and let him try, he`s earned the right to do that. I understand that there is a business side to this, but Bags has done more for this franchise then anyone else (minus Biggio) and needs to at least be given the chance to try.

I have no doubt if Bags feels he cannot go he will not drag the team down nor embarras his legacy. Its to bad its come to this

[Master Baiter]

I love Bags but still want him to retire. That being said, if he wants to try to go this season, the Astros ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO RESPECT THAT. This is Jeff Freaking Bagwell we are talking about here. Bite the bullet and DO NOT disrespect him. It really saddens me to read that article and believe that it is even an issue. I hope there is less to it than they allude to.

[msn]

Let Bagwell try to come back on his own terms. He's earned that right. I'm tired of the Astros trying to get off cheap.
I agree 110% as well.

I think they should try to restructure this contract. If Bagwell wants to play, then let him. How about a guaranteed $5 million a year for two years beyond this one, and $2 million more the year after that? It would be better than the $0 he's on contract for for those years. Additionally, if he still had something, he could sign a one year contract to actually play. In 2007 He could make $5 million for playing ball and $5 million because he played ball in 2006. Of course, since I know jack about the business side and legal side of things, that is probably an amazingly ridiculous suggestion.

At any rate, I do not want to see this amazing career end ugly. I hope McLane and Purpura go to any length appropriate (iow not destroy the future) to keep this from getting ugly. Additionally, I hope that things don't get exasperated by mediots like Dick Justice trying to stir the pot.

[Toast]

Bagwell's been the ultimate team player since he came to the Astros.

Give the man his due. He's earned the right to contribute to this team in whatever capacity he can.

[Groogrux]

Additionally, I hope that things don't get exasperated by mediots like Dick Justice trying to stir the pot.

That's guaranteed to happen. This article being exhibit A. A bunch of speculation with exactly two quotes from Astros management.

[NJRocket]

I agree with you 110%. He has most definitely earned that right. I also feel that Bagwell, his agent, and the Astros front office need to come to some kind of an agreement on milestones (for lack of a better word) that Bagwell needs to reach in order for a decision to be made. For example, if Bagwell cannot throw a baseball from first to third before spring training starts, do you declare him unable to play? If he can't throw that far before opening day? Some kind of consensus has to be reached.

Well, Jan 31 is the deadline for submitting an insurance claim....so its not like they can decide in Spring training as to what they can or cannot do.

If he cannot throw the ball 120 feet....and the fact of the matter is that if he has to make a throw to 2nd on a bunt play or a double play, he probabyl has to throw it hard enough for it to go 150ft...then i don't see him playing.

That being said...if the Astros dont file a claim by jan 31, then they are going to have to pay his salary. Why not look around the AL and see if they can grab a mid level prospect or 2...maybe even a journeyman starter to keep around and trade him to a team where he can be DH. The Astros would have to assume most of the salary but unless they file a claim, they will have to pay him anyway.

[Furious Jam]

I think it will all work out. If Jeff can't consistently throw from 1st to 3rd by the time spring training is over, I think he'll voluntarily retire and save the team money that way. He may stick around a little longer through extended spring, but if he just can't throw, he's not going to go on the IL all season and have the club pay him - I think he's a better man than that.

The real problem would be what if he could both throw and hit, but did both below average? Will he be objective enough to see that Mike Lamb is the better player now and that he's holding the club back? I hope so. I want Jeff to stay in the organization for a long time, but that kind of friction wouldn't help.

Of course, if he can throw okay and hit about .270 with 80 RBIs, that would solve all of these problems. But I'm not betting on that.

[NJRocket]

I think it will all work out. If Jeff can't consistently throw from 1st to 3rd by the time spring training is over, I think he'll voluntarily retire and save the team money that way. .

i think his money is guaranteed.....i think the only way out of paying him is the insurance

[msn]

Of course, if he can throw okay and hit about .270 with 80 RBIs, that would solve all of these problems. But I'm not betting on that.
I'm not betting on it either (I know you're stunned by that), but I certainly *wish* it were the case.

At any rate, I think this $17 Mill is owed to Jeff for having been underpaid for years. Too bad they can't simply restructure it and spread it out to help the organization this year and next. If that were somehow possible, how many folks here would have a problem paying $5 Million for a pretty good bat off the bench?

[NJRocket]

Truthfully...Its hard to feel bad for either side here.

Yes Bags sucked it up (hard to call making 5-10 mil/yr sucking it up) in previous years but this is a business and he knows that better than anyone.

On the other hand, McLane asked Bags for a favor way back when and now its time to pay the piper.

This has the potential to end ugly unfortunately...because I really like Bags.

[Furious Jam]

i think his money is guaranteed.....i think the only way out of paying him is the insurance

I don't think he would get paid if he retired. I'm sure he got some signing bonus up-front that he's still collecting in installments, which is all good. But if he just said, "I can't play anymore", the club wouldn't have to pay him his regular salary (which is a lot). I might be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

Anyway, Drayton's money is always my last concern - he's got plenty. My concern is about Bag's ability to make a consistent and positive contribution to this club this year (in statistical terms, not intangibles or whatever). If he can't do that, but doesn't retire, you risk the season and you might damage Bagwell's relationship with both the club and the fans. In terms of what's best for the franchise and the fans, he might be worth more retired than in the lineup at this point.

[OldManBernie]

I don't think he would get paid if he retired. I'm sure he got some signing bonus up-front that he's still collecting in installments, which is all good. But if he just said, "I can't play anymore", the club wouldn't have to pay him his regular salary (which is a lot). I might be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

Anyway, Drayton's money is always my last concern - he's got plenty. My concern is about Bag's ability to make a consistent and positive contribution to this club this year (in statistical terms, not intangibles or whatever). If he can't do that, but doesn't retire, you risk the season and you might damage Bagwell's relationship with both the club and the fans. In terms of what's best for the franchise and the fans, he might be worth more retired than in the lineup at this point.

Bagwell would get fully compensated, but insurance would reimburse the team a big chunk of the contract.

[pradaxpimp]

Let Bagwell try to come back on his own terms. He's earned that right. I'm tired of the Astros trying to get off cheap.

true, but what if they take that money and spend it on a good, younger player?

[Saint Louis]

The Bagwell saga is starting to remind me of Olajuwon's final days in the league. I guess if I could earn several million for one year I'd be busting my butt too.

[DaDakota]

Both sides have a great point........

If Bags can not throw 1st to 3rd, I don't think he should be on the team.

Maybe in the American League, but not in the National league.

DD

[Furious Jam]

Both sides have a great point........

If Bags can not throw 1st to 3rd, I don't think he should be on the team.

Maybe in the American League, but not in the National league.

DD

Why would an AL team want Bagwell if they could just sign Mike Piazza or Frank Thomas instead?

[BenignDMD]

Jeff Bagwell intends to play for the Astros this season, but the team isn't sure that's the best financial decision.

Jeff Bagwell
First Base
Houston Astros

Profile
2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM HR RBI R OBP AVG
39 3 19 11 .358 .250


The first baseman has played his entire career in Houston and leads the franchise in home runs (449) and RBI (1,529), but missed much of last season after shoulder surgery.

"Nothing is going to keep me from attempting to play baseball next season," Bagwell told the Houston Chronicle.

The team, however, wants him to announce he can't play anymore, he and agent Barry Axelrod told the paper. Then the Astros would be able make an insurance claim for $15.6 million of the approximately $17 million he is owed in 2006.

"We're trying to get some objective information," Astros general manager Tim Purpura told the paper. "A healthy Jeff Bagwell is what we want. If he can't be a full-time player, we have to figure out if we can collect on the insurance or not."

To that end, the team has asked Bagwell to visit orthopedist Dr. James Andrews on Thursday in Birmingham, Ala., the Chronicle reported. The deadline for the insurance claim is Jan. 31.

Bagwell isn't excited about the trip, and he's not ready to quit playing.

"There's no question in my mind I can hit," he told the paper. "It's whether or not I can throw for a full season. Everything has gone exactly the way I thought it should. I'm getting stronger. Am I able to throw 120 feet? No. Am I making progress? Very much so.

"I'm going to try and play baseball at spring training. There's no getting around that. Unless something major happens, I'll be there."

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2288392)

[Rocket Fan]

I hope he plays if he wants to... he earned the contract and I'd want to try and play too..

And I don't think his retirement would necessarily improve the team anyways, what are we going to do with his 18 mil this late in teh free agent period?

[The Real Shady]

Good, he needs to retire if he is only going to be a shell of his former self. I know he wants to go out and "earn" his money, but it would be best for both himself and the team if he retires.

[Rocket Fan]

or 17 million that is..

you could say pay roger... but I think we would pay him anyway if he wanted to come back...

[pgabriel]

again, you guys are overestimating how accessable that insurance payout. Bagwell has to almost have to be rolled out onto the field for the insurance company to pay that. they're gonna have to call Jim Adler, the tough smart lawyer to get that money.

another thing, if the team gets that money, Bagwell can never play again, which is the most likely scenario anyway.

[Buck Turgidson]

Considering that espn's only source is the article in the chron, couldn't this have gone into the other thread?

[Buck Turgidson]

what if they take that money and spend it on a good, younger player?
You're thinking of next offseason I assume, when AP, Racket & Bags are off the books.

The Bagwell saga is starting to remind me of Olajuwon's final days in the league. I guess if I could earn several million for one year I'd be busting my butt too.
This is utterly ridiculous. He gets paid regardless. He could have retired 2 years ago and still gotten paid. His desire to play baseball again is his sole motivation.

[A-Train]

Considering that espn's only source is the article in the chron, couldn't this have gone into the other thread?

ESPN rehashing a local newspaper story and running it on their web site? The hell you say...

[kaleidosky]

Truthfully...Its hard to feel bad for either side here.

Yes Bags sucked it up (hard to call making 5-10 mil/yr sucking it up) in previous years but this is a business and he knows that better than anyone.

On the other hand, McLane asked Bags for a favor way back when and now its time to pay the piper.

This has the potential to end ugly unfortunately...because I really like Bags.

agreed. Just a crappy situation all around. lose-lose (with the unlikely exception of Bags coming back and playing decently for most of the year) I just hope it doesn't end as ugly as Hakeem's kinda did

[MykTek]

can we restructure his contract? like in football....so it'll be a less hit against the payroll...?

[Master Baiter]

Go ahead and pay Bags and get it over with. No reason to have to drag it out over several years.

[rrj_gamz]

I wonder what the legal possibilities if Bagwell goes to this specialist and the specialist declares him incapable of playing baseball? Would the Astros have some means of forcing the retirement? I doubt they would, especially since it looks like it would result in terrible PR backlash considering Bagwell's tone in this article...but I was curious.

I hear you...Without knowing the contract, IMO, its either Jeff says I'm done, and the Stros' collect the insurance, or a doctor states, your done, and they collect...Either way, its a bad situation...If the deadline is 1/31/06, the Astros are screwed...the problem is, Jeff thinks he has some gas left, but what if he does this, gets injured during spring training, then what...I doubt the policy would cover it...

A trade to an AL team would be best...

[Master Baiter]

A trade to an AL team would be best...
Who takes on that contract when the Astros are saying he is done? We'd eat the majority of it and I'd be sick to see Bags play his last year not with the Astros.

[HayesStreet]

If we're gonna eat most of the contract then we might as well keep him. Unfortunate situation all around, but at this point McMullet....er, McLain needs to pony up the extra $20 mm to get another good player and just eat Bags contract instead of trying to get the insurance company to pay off.

[Bobblehead]

Jeff...if you can't turn a double play, ot throw home, than retire buddy.
Take the $2 million and let the Astros move on!!!!

[Rashmon]

My heart:
I love and respect Bags as much as the next fan and would love to see him come back strong. If anyone has the strength of will and detemination to do it Bags is the man.

My head:
Stick a fork in him he's done.

[JunkyardDwg]

can we restructure his contract? like in football....so it'll be a less hit against the payroll...?


He has in the past...several times in fact. Which is why his contract is so backloaded now. I think he's earned the right to play out his contract if he so chooses, but I understand the team's feelings of not wanting to pay 17mill for a pinch batter.

[MadMax]

There's no doubt he's earned this contract.

But I wouldn't be real keen on paying $17 million to a guy who can't make a throw across the infield. Particularly when you've also paid insurance premiums to cover this very situation.

[JunkyardDwg]

ESPN not only rehasing a local story, but sensationalizing it. Nowhere in the article does anyone from management specifically ask Bagwell to retire.

[bobrek]

He has in the past...several times in fact. Which is why his contract is so backloaded now. I think he's earned the right to play out his contract if he so chooses, but I understand the team's feelings of not wanting to pay 17mill for a pinch batter.

The money he deferred does not exist in his current contract. The deferred money will be paid out at some other point in time. This year's 17 million is because of the 5 year 85 million dollar deal he signed in 2000.

[emjohn]

ESPN not only rehasing a local story, but sensationalizing it. Nowhere in the article does anyone from management specifically ask Bagwell to retire.
Well, to be fair, it does say Jeff and his agent claim that they have behind closed doors.

Evan

[bobrek]

If we're gonna eat most of the contract then we might as well keep him. Unfortunate situation all around, but at this point McMullet....er, McLain needs to pony up the extra $20 mm to get another good player and just eat Bags contract instead of trying to get the insurance company to pay off.

Considering the Astros have been paying insurance premiums on that contract, they would be foolish to not try and take advantage of that, if possible.

If Bagwell cannot perform in the field, the Astros are entirely justified in seeking the compensation via the insurance policy that they have been paying on for the last X years.

[Mr. Mooch]

As I see it, no Bagwell = no Clemens.

[CBrownFanClub]

I call BS on the Astros for this one - I understand you try to save $ wherever you can, but Bagwell restructured for the good of the team, and it is time for the Astros to pay that debt without forcing him the indignity of a forced retirement - they thrived off his competitve, prideful nature for years, they can not just expect him to become a different creature because they owe him money. Its like deferring payment on a phone bill, and then bitching when they bulk payment comes due.

[MadMax]

I call BS on the Astros for this one - I understand you try to save $ wherever you can, but Bagwell restructured for the good of the team, and it is time for the Astros to pay that debt without forcing him the indignity of a forced retirement - they thrived off his competitve, prideful nature for years, they can not just expect him to become a different creature because they owe him money. Its like deferring payment on a phone bill, and then bitching when they bulk payment comes due.

something i think you guys are missing: HE STILL GETS PAID!!! the Astros just get reimbursed for $15 million of it. but it's not as if this is a decision to pay Bagwell money he contracted for or not.

[JunkyardDwg]

The money he deferred does not exist in his current contract. The deferred money will be paid out at some other point in time. This year's 17 million is because of the 5 year 85 million dollar deal he signed in 2000.


Bagwell gets a $15 million signing bonus -- payable $3 million a year from 2002 through 2006 -- and salaries of $8 million in 2002, $10 million in 2003, $13 million in 2004, $15 million in 2005 and $17 million in 2006. Houston holds an $18 million option for 2007 with a $7 million buyout.

Of his salaries, $2 million will be deferred in 2002, $3 million in 2003, $6 million in 2004, $8 million in 2005, $10 million in 2006 and, if the option is exercised, $12 million in 2007. The deferred money will accrue interest and be paid 2{ years after it is earned.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2000/1218/961349.html


All I know is he's taken one for the team a number of times, he's an icon of this team and city, and is a big factor behind the club's success over the past decade. So I think he deserves to try and and finish on his terms. But obviously if he can't, he should do what's right and call it quits.

[MadMax]

ok..so bagwell, himself, is saying he can't make the throw across the infield.

where does that leave us?? are we obligated to play him even if he can't throw the ball across the infield????

[JunkyardDwg]

ok..so bagwell, himself, is saying he can't make the throw across the infield.

where does that leave us?? are we obligated to play him even if he can't throw the ball across the infield????

He can't throw now... I don't think anybody is gonna know what he can or can't do, including himself, until spring training rolls around. And by that time, it'll be too late. Pretty big pickle. Hopefully this turns out ok for both sides. I don't wanna see another Dream incident.

[DVauthrin]

ok..so bagwell, himself, is saying he can't make the throw across the infield.

where does that leave us?? are we obligated to play him even if he can't throw the ball across the infield????

It leaves the team at the end of the era with Jeff Bagwell plain and simple. He would be hurting the team in such a situation. I love Jeff, but he has to be able to throw in the infield to be able to get starting consideration again. And I don't see Bags putting himself above the team.

Personally, I think Justice is trying to stir the pot a little bit. The Astros had to hedge their bets, and Wilson was a smart acquisition. He can play a lot of center if Bagwell can go, but can also fill the offensive void they sorely missed if Bags is out again, like last year.

[MadMax]

He can't throw now... I don't think anybody is gonna know what he can or can't do, including himself, until spring training rolls around. And by that time, it'll be too late. Pretty big pickle. Hopefully this turns out ok for both sides. I don't wanna see another Dream incident.

i see this as very different from Hakeem.

it's possible Bags can't play. literally can't do very routine things. not just diminished skills.

with dream, it was largely diminished skills. time had taken its toll...but he could still do the very fundamental things. he just wasn't the player he once was.

i think this is different.

[bobrek]

Bagwell gets a $15 million signing bonus -- payable $3 million a year from 2002 through 2006 -- and salaries of $8 million in 2002, $10 million in 2003, $13 million in 2004, $15 million in 2005 and $17 million in 2006. Houston holds an $18 million option for 2007 with a $7 million buyout.

Of his salaries, $2 million will be deferred in 2002, $3 million in 2003, $6 million in 2004, $8 million in 2005, $10 million in 2006 and, if the option is exercised, $12 million in 2007. The deferred money will accrue interest and be paid 2{ years after it is earned.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2000/1218/961349.html


All I know is he's taken one for the team a number of times, he's an icon of this team and city, and is a big factor behind the club's success over the past decade. So I think he deserves to try and and finish on his terms. But obviously if he can't, he should do what's right and call it quits.

I think that is what I was saying with respect to his current contract. In other words, the money he is playing for this year, was not money deferred from previous years. While he will apparently only receive $10,000,000 in 2006, he will receive the remaining $7,000,000 in 2008.

I don't consider that kind of contract as "taking one for the team". He was well paid and will get additional monies after he retires. Also, according to that blurb, he will get $3,000,000 from his signing bonus, $10,000,000 in 2006 non-deferred money and $6,000,000 from his 2004 deferred money this year. So it looks like his cash compensation during the 2006 season will be $19,000,000 :eek:.

[MadMax]

I think that is what I was saying with respect to his current contract. In other words, the money he is playing for this year, was not money deferred from previous years. While he will apparently only receive $10,000,000 in 2006, he will receive the remaining $7,000,000 in 2008.

I don't consider that kind of contract as "taking one for the team". He was well paid and will get additional monies after he retires. Also, according to that blurb, he will get $3,000,000 from his signing bonus, $10,000,000 in 2006 non-deferred money and $6,000,000 from his 2004 deferred money this year. So it looks like his cash compensation during the 2006 season will be $19,000,000 :eek:.

where can i sign up to make that sacrifice?

[Moe]

Is it Bagwell's fault that the supposed drop dead date of Jan 31 is in the policy. Who signed off on such a stupid provision. Why not have had a date coinciding with the end of spring training? Did they save a few bucks on the premium by pushing the date up to Jan, 31?

Something seems a little queer about it to me. If anyone has any direct knowledge of the circumstance of the Jan, 31 date, it would be nice to know.

[jopatmc]

The insurance company did that to protect themselves against situations just like this and force players and clubs to make definitive decisions. It's all in the game my friend.

[Furious Jam]

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail004.jpg

BAGWELL: I'm not dead!
PURPURA: You will be soon. You're very ill.
BAGWELL: I'm getting better.
PURPURA: No you're not.
BAGWELL: I don't want to go on the cart!
PURPURA: Don't be such a baby!

[geeimsobored]

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail004.jpg

BAGWELL: I'm not dead!
PURPURA: You will be soon. You're very ill.
BAGWELL: I'm getting better.
PURPURA: No you're not.
BAGWELL: I don't want to go on the cart!
PURPURA: Don't be such a baby!

HAHA that's oh so true about this situation.

[HayesStreet]

Considering the Astros have been paying insurance premiums on that contract, they would be foolish to not try and take advantage of that, if possible. If Bagwell cannot perform in the field, the Astros are entirely justified in seeking the compensation via the insurance policy that they have been paying on for the last X years.

Right, if he can't play then there is no problem collecting the insurance. However, it is collective stupidity to try and force Bagwell into retirement when he obviously doesn't want to. One answer that solves the problem is for McLain to pony up an extra $20 mm to do whatever they would otherwise do with the insurance money. Sucks for him but he's got it and the alternative (forcing out Bags) is much worse.

[NJRocket]

As I see it, no Bagwell = no Clemens.


I think exactly the opposite.

I think No Bagwell = insurance pays Bags all but a little = more money available for Roger

[Moe]

The insurance company did that to protect themselves against situations just like this and force players and clubs to make definitive decisions. It's all in the game my friend.


Situations like what? Waiting until spring training to see if you are physically able to start the season? You do understand, my friend, that an insurance policy is a contract between two parties, and I highly doubt that these types of policies are boiler plate set in stone. In other words, someone representing the Astros had to agree to that date. A definitive decision could be made by any agreed upon date.

[KingCheetah]

Tough luck Astros' management ~ Bags has a contract and he's more than earned the right to give it a shot.

[JunkyardDwg]

ESPN not only rehasing a local story, but sensationalizing it. Nowhere in the article does anyone from management specifically ask Bagwell to retire.


Astros haven't asked Bagwell to retire
First baseman's agent backs up team's claim
By Alyson Footer / MLB.com


HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros, however skeptical about Jeff Bagwell's chances to return to the field in 2006, have not formally asked him to retire.

Nor are they using Bagwell's meeting with Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham on Thursday as a way to prove the first baseman's right shoulder is too damaged to be able to play a six-month Major League season.

General manager Tim Purpura reiterated on Wednesday that the meeting is nothing more than a way to get an evaluation and that he does not expect Dr. Andrews to make any sweeping claims in either direction.

But Purpura wants a medical opinion, something he has not been able to obtain throughout the winter.

"The intent of this is to find out where Jeff stands right now," Purpura said. "He's refused to visit with the team doctors this offseason. Until a doctor sees him, we don't know where he stands."

Bagwell has worked tirelessly this offseason to make a healthy return to the field in 2006, but he's done so feeling that the club he plays for is offering half-hearted support, at best.

The Astros, on the other hand, are insisting they have not written off the 15-year veteran. Recent headlines have suggested the Astros asked Bagwell to deem himself unable to play in '06, a perception both the Astros and Bagwell's agent, Barry Axelrod, refuted.

"Absolutely not, we've never said that," Purpura said.

"They have not done that," Axelrod said. "Have they hinted at it? Are we well aware they may want that to happen? Yes. But they said early on they're not going to try to press him into the situation."

The sticking point, and the recent perceived sense of urgency, is the deadline that the Astros must meet in order to have a chance to collect from the insurance company in the event Bagwell cannot play this year.

According to a report by the Houston Chronicle, the Astros must file a claim by Jan. 31 in order to possibly collect $15.6 million of the $17 million Bagwell is owed in '06. This date appears to be earlier than what was previously understood as the deadline.

According to Axelrod, he and Purpura met for an informal lunch during the Astros' road swing through southern California late last season, and the two discussed, among other topics, Bagwell's situation.

Purpura told Axelrod that in regard to the insurance policy, a decision regarding Bagwell's playing status would need to arrive during Spring Training.

"That date has changed," Axelrod said. "The timeline moved up as to when the claim has to be made."

A Jan. 31 deadline may make it difficult for Bagwell to use Spring Training to gauge whether he can play, in terms of the insurance aspect of this saga. Whether the Astros can file a claim on that date and then wait until Spring Training to find out if he can play is still to be determined.

The best-case scenario, of course, is that Bagwell finds out he can throw across the diamond and hit, and do the two on a consistent basis throughout the season.

But the worst-case scenario is much more complicated, especially with the money that's at stake. Axelrod emphasized that he sees why the Astros are exploring the insurance possibilities.

He also understands that the market has shifted downward, as much as 25 percent, since Bagwell signed his $85 million contract extension in December of 2000, and that a $17 million price tag, regardless of deferred money and backloaded agreements, is a tough pill to swallow.

"Would they want Jeff Bagwell now making $17 million, or opt for access to $15 million?" Axelrod said. "I can understand that. But he's under contract. Sometimes you have to live with it."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060111&content_id=1294361&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[SamFisher]

For 17 million I would whore myself in the most decrepit ways imaginable.

[Groogrux]

So, Justice was just trying to stir up ****? Color me shocked. :rolleyes:

[franchise?..NOT]

Why would the Astros not be the happiest people in baseball to see him pronounced fit to play and be able to add his 30 HR's and 90 plus RBI's to the offense. But if the guy cannot play defense and ends up playing a month or so before going to the bench/DL then who wins. I do not want Bags to end his career with a whimper or a whine. Trade him and Lane to Boston for Ramirez or Clements. Win /win for everyone. Boston gets rid of salary and an unhappy player gets a prodigal son returning home to finish his career as a big time DH and we get a bat to replace Bags, which by the way has to make us look pretty good to Clemens.

[msn]

Bags has a contract.
Period.

[MadMax]

So, Justice was just trying to stir up ****? Color me shocked. :rolleyes:

in all seriousness...what an ass. if there's not a story...make one up. he's been doing that for so long i'm not sure how anyone can take him seriously.

[Groogrux]

in all seriousness...what an ass. if there's not a story...make one up. he's been doing that for so long i'm not sure how anyone can take him seriously.

Buck and I were discussing this last night. He's obviously doing this to make a name for himself and based on his increased appearances on ESPN, it's working. Not to mention, he knows there's a vocal group of people in this town that will absolutely pounce on the owner at any semblence of negative information. He clearly panders to them.

We really need a new paper in this town.

[MadMax]

Buck and I were discussing this last night. He's obviously doing this to make a name for himself and based on his increased appearances on ESPN, it's working. Not to mention, he knows there's a vocal group of people in this town that will absolutely pounce on the owner at any semblence of negative information. He clearly panders to them.

We really need a new paper in this town.

wow, i think you hit the nail on the head. there are a few who will knee-jerk and assume that his "speculative" writing is true.

hell, even when he comes on the radio he's usually just talking about his "hunches." hell, i have hunches...put my ass on the radio, Chance!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! :) every caller who calls in every day has a hunch...none of them are getting paid for it!

[Ottomaton]

The anticlimatic followup:

No answers from Bagwell
Examination reveals little about status of shoulder for player, Astros


By BRIAN MCTAGGART
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Astros first baseman Jeff Bagwell said Thursday night that he doesn't believe the tests he was put through early that day will necessarily give the club the answers it seeks about his surgically repaired right shoulder.

Bagwell, 37, flew to Birmingham, Ala., to work out at the American Sports Medicine Institute, which was founded by noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews. Bagwell also was examined by Andrews, who is in the hospital recovering from a heart attack.

The trip was at the request of the Astros, who are trying to get a better idea on the status of Bagwell's shoulder. Bagwell underwent capsular release surgery in June and missed 115 games last season.

"I threw 20 balls and took about 15 swings on videotape and went and saw Dr. Andrews, who was a heck of a trouper for seeing me in his hospital bed after a heart attack," Bagwell said. "We had a good conversation. He examined me, and that's about the extent of it right now."

The Astros face a Jan. 31 deadline for filing an insurance claim that would pay the club about $15.6 million if Bagwell decides he can't play. Bagwell is scheduled to make about $17 million this year and insists he will to try to play.

"They want to make a decision on me quickly, and I don't know if I'm ready to make that decision," he said. "It's tough at this point in my rehab and this point in my offseason to go 'Oh, OK, I'm done.' I just don't think that's fair, but they need to know for their insurance policy."

Bagwell, who has battled shoulder problems since 2001, said Thursday marked only the fourth time he has thrown a baseball since the end of the World Series.

"It didn't look great, but then again for three years-plus at this point during the offseason I couldn't throw the ball five feet," he said. "That's not what I was trying to gear up to do. I was trying to gear up to play on April 1 or whenever opening day was.

"Apparently, the Astros wanted something now. It's very easy to say now 'Oh, it doesn't look like he can play.' I've never looked like I could play (at this point) in the last four years."

Bagwell's throwing and hitting motions were recorded using motion analysis software that required him to put dozens of sensors on his body. Astros general manager Tim Purpura expects to have some findings in a few days.

"From a getting-it-done point of view, he got it done," Purpura said. "Now we'll await the results."

[v3.0]

Bend over Uncle Drayton...

[Fegwu]

Squeezing Bags is down right silly. QED.

This is so ridiculous I am gravely irritated. Give the man his due respect and let him exit gracefully on his own terms. It is a contract both sides agreed tio for goodness Drayt. Jeez what is up with these guys. The last thing we want is the cause of Baggy to hunt us for the next 100 years.

Yeah I am willing NOT to have Clemens back if keeping Bags forces that scenario. Bags (healthy or not) is still more valuable to me than Clemens.