[RUMOR] Carr to Dolphins for Ricky Williams and 3rd round pick

[Drewdog]

This was posted at profootballtalk.com and also by a poster at orangebloods.com so take it for what its worth....

RUMORS FLY OF CARR-FOR-RICKY TRADE

On Monday, we surmised that the Texans have floated the notion that they intend to select USC tailback Reggie Bush with the No. 1 pick in the draft in order to avoid criticism from the Longhorns lovers that the lure of playing for his hometown Texans prompted Texas quarterback Vince Young to skip his senior season. (A reader also raised with us another solid possibility -- that the report was a trial balloon aimed at determining what the local reaction would be to not taking Young -- and we're told that the local reaction was decidedly negative.)

But the Bush report also might have been intended to throw potential focus off of rumors that are now emerging -- and these are rumors only -- of a looming trade between the Texans and Dolphins.

Under the deal, as we've heard it, the Texans would send quarterback David Carr to Miami for running back Ricky Williams (a former Longhorn) and a third-round draft pick.

Williams is under contract through 2007. Carr is due to receive an $8 million option bonus in February, which would extend his contract through 2008.

Again, these are rumors only -- and we're not suggesting that this trade will go down. But if it should happen it clears the way for the Texans to select Young.

Stay tuned.

[Summer Song Giver]

I'd want more than TPS and a third and I'm sure we could get it.

[thegary]

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/5753/salt5bk.jpg

[pariah]

Hmm, where did this wood come from?

:D

[emjohn]

I doubt it's going to happen, but I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if it did.

Evan

[MadMax]

do it NOW. make it happen.

if we pull ricky williams and vince young out of this offseason, i'll be very pleased.

[JPM0016]

This has been going around for nearly a week. There's no truth to it.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

I like the deal. It enables us to have two potentially AWESOME running backs. If Ricky returned to college form (he'd have to lay off the drugs), and was put in Kubiak's system...imagine the results. We always have Domanick anyways. Plus, this enables us to draft Vince Young. And we get a third rounder that enables us to grab another lineman or a good Tight End for Young.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

This has been going around for nearly a week. There's no truth to it.
But we can all hope! :D


Either way, their reasoning for us declaring we'd pick Reggie Bush is kind of interesting, and it gives me hope. From what I heard, we haven't even evaluated Vince Young yet because we thought he'd return to school. That gives me even further hope. I trust all that is almighty that Bob McNair is not an airhead, and I'm pretty sure he's not...

[Luckyazn]

Vince Young/Ricky Williams/DD/extra OL :)


Carr/Bush/DD :)

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Vince Young/Ricky Williams/DD/extra OL :)


Carr/Bush/DD :)
How would anyone not take the Vince Young/Ricky Williams option....seriously?

[SuperS32]

This was posted at profootballtalk.com and also by a poster at orangebloods.com so take it for what its worth....


Boy, those are some credible sources you got there...

[Drewdog]

do it NOW. make it happen.

if we pull ricky williams and vince young out of this offseason, i'll be very pleased.

No kidding - Ive got season tickets next year if Cass can swing this deal.

Miami needs a solid QB and they already have a stud in the making in Ronnie Brown. I think its a win-win situation for both teams, and that Ricky Williams is worth the risk.

[Drewdog]

Boy, those are some credible sources you got there...

Thats why I posted [RUMOR]

Jesus...... :rolleyes:

[MadMax]

Carr/Bush/DD :)


you confuse me. don't you think carr sucks?? haven't you been telling us that all season long??

[rikesh316]

This was made up by some poster on scout.com. This isn't true and won't ever happen.

[DaDakota]

I would bet the Texans front office is watching the publics reaction to their moves VERY closely.

At the end of the day, they are in it to make money......it is a business.

One player gives them more business....that is why I think they have no real choice.

DD

[SWTsig]

I would bet the Texans front office is watching the publics reaction to their moves VERY closely.

At the end of the day, they are in it to make money......it is a business.

One player gives them more business....that is why I think they have no real choice.

DD

exactly........ Hakeem Olajuwon.

[Raven Lunatic]

I would bet the Texans front office is watching the publics reaction to their moves VERY closely.

At the end of the day, they are in it to make money......it is a business.

One player gives them more business....that is why I think they have no real choice.

DD

This completely excludes the fact that the team WINNING would make them the most money. If the team really believes that their decisions, and not the overall opinion of the public, will result in the most wins, then that is what they will do, public outcry be damned.

[reggietodd]

Funny. The same people who hate Kobe because he is selfish and not a team player, would like to have Ricky Williams. The all time quitter.

Nah, theres no bias around here. :rolleyes:

[RocketMan Tex]

Not.

Gonna.

Happen.

[Another Brother]

do it NOW. make it happen.

if we pull ricky williams and vince young out of this offseason, i'll be very pleased.

and that's before the draft.

fingers crossed

[xiki]

I'd want more than TPS and a third and I'm sure we could get it.

What is TPS?

I suspect this is just a worthless rumor -- Ricky seems the anti-McNair Texan.

[Lil Francis]

Nothing but a bad rumor. The Texans are not trading David Carr. Casserly said they will pick up the option February 2nd and once that happens its all about Bush in 06 baby. And why in the hell would we want Ricky Williams? You never know when he will just "retire" again in the middle of training camp. Thanks but no thanks. Bush in 06. Either deal with it or root for the Titans (Vince Young's future team)

[DaDakota]

Nothing but a bad rumor. The Texans are not trading David Carr. Casserly said they will pick up the option February 2nd and once that happens its all about Bush in 06 baby. And why in the hell would we want Ricky Williams? You never know when he will just "retire" again in the middle of training camp. Thanks but no thanks. Bush in 06. Either deal with it or root for the Titans (Vince Young's future team)

Yep, and watch the Texans wallow in continued mediocrity while Jeff Fisher and the Titans along with Vince Young become contenders again.

Everyone will hate Casserly.....and the Texans fans will be wearing bags on their heads.

DD

[Master Baiter]

I don't understand the Ricky Williams trade either. What would we need with another rb for? If we are trading Carr so that we can draft Young, we keep DD. Why do we need to improve in that area? I could see trading him for a linebacker or a lineman (O or D), maybe even a receiver or tight end. But running back? Makes no sense.

[percicles]

I dont want Ricky. Just give me your 1st rounder and we'll call it even Saban.

[Lil Francis]

Yep, and watch the Texans wallow in continued mediocrity while Jeff Fisher and the Titans along with Vince Young become contenders again.

Everyone will hate Casserly.....and the Texans fans will be wearing bags on their heads.

DDI doubt it. If Casserly wants to save his job he will draft Bush and thats the pick the Texans will make. You people act like Reggie Bush is Tony Hollings or somebody. Bush is a game changer. Once he gets here and explode on the scene all the Young bandwagon people will be back on his bandwagon. Bush in 06. Believe it. Deal with it.

[SamCassell]

I think Ricky would do well back in the state of Texas. And he's still a very talented, productive back who's got a few good years left in him and a small cap number. I'd do that deal.

[couple of d's]

t.p.s. = the pot smoker? :confused:

[Luckyazn]

you confuse me. don't you think carr sucks?? haven't you been telling us that all season long??


Yes CARR does sucks! but if is to get Bush now and watch Carr leave later I'm all for it.

Drafting VY would mean we wont get Bush.


Carr = Tim Couch, Doug Johnson, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff George

[xiki]

t.p.s. = the pot smoker? :confused:

thanks

[DaDakota]

Reggie Bush = Rocket Ishmail or Eric Metcalf.....a good player, but not a superstar player.

DD

[Luckyazn]

Carr is an AVG QB at best which mean HE"S NOT WORTH THE MONEY we're paying him.

Is like watching Joe Johnson getting the MAX DEAL.


Cant we just pay a VET QB like 2mil. instead or get Philip River from SD

[TMac640]

i've heard from some reliable sources, that ricky williams would play for free?

anyone else heard this?

[A-Train]

I always liked "T-Rex" as a nickname for Ricky Williams...

[aburttschell]

Reggie Bush = Rocket Ishmail or Eric Metcalf.....a good player, but not a superstar player.

DD

Reggie Bush = LT or Barry Sanders .................... a great player, and a future hall of famer. This statement holds as much validity as yours does.

[jopatmc]

Yes CARR does sucks! but if is to get Bush now and watch Carr leave later I'm all for it.

Drafting VY would mean we wont get Bush.


Carr = Tim Couch, Doug Johnson, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff George


Carr is no more those guys than Bush is Eric Metcalf or Vince Young is Kordell Stewart. Come on guys, let's keep it real.

[xiki]

Carr is an AVG QB at best which mean HE"S NOT WORTH THE MONEY we're paying him.



How does his cap #s work:
if he is traded?
if he is cut?
if he gets the 8mm and extention?

[RocketMan Tex]

I always liked "T-Rex" as a nickname for Ricky Williams...

I prefer "Rasta Running Back".

[Fatty FatBastard]

I prefer "Rasta Running Back".

I prefer "penultimate failure."

[thegary]

I prefer "penultimate failure."

what's that supposed to mean? who then is the ultimate failure? you making a word salad over there?

[Groogrux]

I prefer "penultimate failure."

Who's the last one?

[Drewdog]

Reggie Bush = Rocket Ishmail or Eric Metcalf.....a good player, but not a superstar player.

DD

Oh please..... :rolleyes:

How the hell can you make that prediction when every expert in the nation is comparing him to Gayle Sayers???

[Lil Francis]

Reggie Bush = Rocket Ishmail or Eric Metcalf.....a good player, but not a superstar player.

DDSo I can tell you Vince Young is another Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch right?? It make just as much sense. If Bush gets 1,200yds next season you will still have something negative to say about him.

[geeimsobored]

How does his cap #s work:
if he is traded?
if he is cut?
if he gets the 8mm and extention?

If we trade him that means we pick up his option first and then trade him which means choice #1 and choice #3 are essentially the same. We take a cap hit either way regardless of what we do with him after picking up his option.

As for choice #2, its a non-issue because if we decline his option then he's a free agent and we dont really have to deal with him anymore. It's either a choice between picking up his option or declining it and letting him go.

[Baqui99]

No way is Miami dumb enough to do this. Ricky was tearing it up during the 2nd half of last season. Meanwhile, David Carr was looking like a complete fool on a 2-14 team. I'd be surprised it that bum fetches anything better than a 4th rounder.

[aburttschell]

No way is Miami dumb enough to do this. Ricky was tearing it up during the 2nd half of last season. Meanwhile, David Carr was looking like a complete fool on a 2-14 team. I'd be surprised it that bum fetches anything better than a 4th rounder.

You have Carr and Ricky Williams in the same sentence and your calling Carr the bum?

[Baqui99]

You have Carr and Ricky Williams in the same sentence and your calling Carr the bum?

David Carr is a poor man's AJ Feely.

[Mr. Clutch]

No way I trade Carr for a guy who quit football to smoke pot. This is ridiculous.

[thacabbage]

The next time I hear someone call into ESPN 790 or sportsradio 610 and pose [what they deem to be a personal epiphany] the idea of trading Carr and Davis for the #2 pick, I'm going to jump off my roof.

[gr8-1]

I'd want more than TPS and a third and I'm sure we could get it.

I'm not sure alot of teams would give more than a third for Carr, much less TPS.

[percicles]

I'm not sure alot of teams would give more than a third for Carr, much less TPS.

I disagree. Quaterback is a sellers market. Carr would be an upgrade on many NFL teams (Bills, Lions, Jags). Also, there's that perception around the league that it's the Texans O-line that is hidering his development. I think you can find a team desperate for a QB and arrogant enough 2 think they can make him better that they're willing to part with a late 1st rounder.

...and Saban is arrogant.

[DaDakota]

Oh please..... :rolleyes:

How the hell can you make that prediction when every expert in the nation is comparing him to Gayle Sayers???

Because I am smarter than them....

;)

Gale Sayers was a fast player in a slow man's game......everyone is fast now.

Vince Young has the potential to revolutionize the game moreso than Reggie Bush.

And if I am not mistaken Gale Sayers did not play very long.....

DD

[DaDakota]

So I can tell you Vince Young is another Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch right?? It make just as much sense. If Bush gets 1,200yds next season you will still have something negative to say about him.

You could, if you believed that, the difference is that Vince did it at the HIGHEST level against the HIGHEST competition.

Look I could be wrong...but I'm not.

:)

DD

[ROCKSS]

David Carr is a poor man's AJ Feely.

As a Dolphin fan I had to chuckle at the comparison :D

[rrj_gamz]

Speculation, sure, but I think its nice to dream...Well worth it and would do it in a heartbeat...Huge upside and a chance for RW to re-vamp his career..

[ROCKSS]

I
...and Saban is arrogant.

I have to disagree. He is very confident, but does not go out of his way to show his superior coaching skills ala Mike Martz

I would love this trade, but I cannot see it happening. I happen to think Carr could do a good job in the right system and with the right people around him. I think you will be amazed at how much better Carr will get once the Texans draft Bush and shore up the O-Line. Put Kubiak in as Head Coach and you have yourself a strong foundation to build from.

[Harrisment]

Maybe we can get Mack Brown in here too just to really top it off. :rolleyes:




;)

[Luckyazn]

Maybe we can get Mack Brown in here too just to really top it off. :rolleyes:


Trade Carr for Ricky William, then draft Vince Young .. 2nd rd draft Jon Scott ...... the sign QJammer.... sign Simm as a backup ...... then hire Mack Brown :rolleyes:


oh



and change the name of the team to

HOUSTON LONGHORNS

[tinman]

I dont want Ricky. Just give me your 1st rounder and we'll call it even Saban.
did u see ricky run without splitting time with ronnie brown in week 16?


172 yards

[percicles]

and change the name of the team to

HOUSTON LONGHORNS

Less redundant than the Houston Texans.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Trade Carr for Ricky William, then draft Vince Young .. 2nd rd draft Jon Scott ...... the sign QJammer.... sign Simm as a backup ...... then hire Mack Brown :rolleyes:


oh



and change the name of the team to

HOUSTON LONGHORNS
Hey, we could almost keep the same logo! :D

[halfbreed]

Oh please..... :rolleyes:

How the hell can you make that prediction when every expert in the nation is comparing him to Gayle Sayers???

Perhaps you don't remember Harold "baby Jordan" Minor...

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Perhaps you don't remember Harold "baby Jordan" Minor...
Hey, he won a dunk contest or two! :D

[Da Man]

Perhaps you don't remember Harold "baby Jordan" Minor...

It was a nickname. Harold Minor was drafted 13th in the 1992 draft, so it wasn't like the scouts/experts perceived him being the next Jordan. It was only stupid a certain group of unknowledgable fans (i.e. Houston Rockets' fans) that viewed him in such a light. Harold Minor instead of Robert Horry. That would have worked out real well.

[pradaxpimp]

do it NOW. make it happen.

if we pull ricky williams and vince young out of this offseason, i'll be very pleased.

lets sign Mack Brown, Limas Sweed, Seldom Young, Roy Williams (11), and David Thomas. Is Cedric Benson, Quentin Jammer, Michael Huff also available?

[KaiSeR SoZe]

LMAO!! I just stop laughing...I just read the first post and I'm cracking up for reasons unknown to me

[Da Man]

Reggie Bush = Rocket Ishmail or Eric Metcalf.....a good player, but not a superstar player.

DD

I'm tired of people degrading Reggie Bush, just to support their argument for Vince Young. I think both are tremendous prospects, and that we are very fortunate to have the opportunity in deciding the course of our franchise with the number 1 overall pick.

But let's clear up some things. Let's address all of the anti-Reggie Bush propaganda. Examples: "Reggie Bush will never be a workhorse back / Reggie Bush can't run between the tackles / Reggie didn't even have Pete Carroll's confidence in USC's most important game."

Fact, Reggie Bush carried the ball 200 times this year. He had more carries than LenDale White. Fact, Reggie Bush had 268 total touches this year (carries, catches, KR, PR). Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown split carries their last year at Auburn. I don't remember hearing about a lot of durability issues about them coming out of college. Williams never had a season where he touched the ball more than 260 times at Auburn. Bush had 268 touches this year.

Let's take look at this small back / big back issue. Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott. Warrick Dunn is 5'9", 180 lbs. He is a 9 year veteran and 31 years of age. He just rushed for 1400 yards this year with a 5.1 per carry average. Mike Alstott is the "Big Back" in the Bucs equation. 6'1", 248 lbs. 10 year veteran, 32 years of age. Mike Alstott is DONE! He hasn't been marginally effective since 2002. Warrick Dunn in college never had as many touches as Reggie Bush in College. In 1996, Dunn had only 219 touches at FSU.

Let's take a look at Tiki Barber. 5'10", 200 lbs. 9th NFL season, 30 years of age. He just rushed for 1800 yards this past season. Where's Ron Dayne? He of the great college stats, monster Rose Bowl games, and prototypical size.

How about Eddie George. After 9 NFL seasons, he's out of the league. Jerome Bettis stopped being a good every down back in 2001. Curtis Martin. All 5'10", 210 lbs lead the league in rushing last year and is a 11 year veteran.

If people are basing their claims that Bush cannot be an every down back because of his college career or his size, the evidence doesn't really support that claim. His 268 touches this past year is a pretty damn good workload. Size hasn't kept a lot of backs from being productive late in their careers. Running style is a bigger factor whether a back can be effective later in their careers. Barry Sanders proved that. Marcus Allen proved that. Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, and Warrick Dunn are proving that. Power backs tend to have fewer "prime" years. Eddie George, Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis, Natrone Means, Christian Okoye, and so forth.

Bush's running style precludes him from taking a lot of hits and I think that's going to help him stay healthy for his career.

Also, comparisons to Raghib Ismail and Desmond Howard are terrible. Ismail and Howard were wide receivers that returned kickoffs and punts. Their career paths are irrelevant when evaluating Reggie Bush as a multi-dimensional running back.

Next, Bush and the 2006 Rose Bowl. Bush prior to the 2005 college football season was considered a top of the round talent. Should we really hold it against Bush that he: a) was surrounded by tons of talent, b) split carries with another talented running back, or c) didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game.

Let's start with "a". If you are going to be a dominating, championship caliber team, you will be surrounded with tons of talent. Was Andre Johnson any less of a player because he only caught 60 passes for 1000 yards (not exactly jaw dropping numbers) on a superstar ladened Miami team? After all, how hard is it to achieve those numbers in college when you have an All-American QB, two Pro Bowl running backs, a Pro Bowl TE, and a couple of 1st rounders on the offensive line. No we shouldn't hold that against Andre Johnson, just as we shouldn't hold that against Bush.

Or how bout Ray Lewis or Ed Reed on anyone of those great Miami defenses? How could they not be playmakers in college when they are surround by 1st rounders on the D line that are constantly putting pressure on the QB, taking on multiple blockers on run plays, and so on and so forth.

Let's move on to "b", splitting carries with another talented back. Just because there are two talented backs in the backfield, it shouldn't be an indictment against the "other" talented back that he can't wrestle away all of the carries from the "other" back. Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams had what most would consider very good 1st seasons in the NFL. They had to split carries on college. Should we really hold it against Barry Sanders that he couldn't start ahead of Thurman Thomas while the two were at Oklahoma State. Barry didn't even split carries with Thurman Thomas his first two years. He was literally the backup.

Let's move to "c", didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game. Reggie Bush had 177 rushing and receiving yards in the Rose Bowl. Reggie Bush averaged 170 yards rushing and receiving during the 2005 season. Bush performed in the Rose Bowl as well as he performed all season long. Why is everyone so disappointed? Taking in account "Big Games" is sometimes an overrated stat. Ron Dayne was back-to-back Rose Bowl MVP. Tyrone Wheatley rushed for 250 yards in his last Rose Bowl game. Ryan Leaf had a great Rose Bowl in the national championship game against the 1997 Michigan Wolverines. Peyton Manning that same year threw for 150 yards with a couple of picks in his last bowl game. Or how about Andre Johnson being "shut down" by Chris Gamble in the 2003 BCS championship game? Putting too much emphasis on one game can some times lead to bad player evaluations.

When evaluating college players, especially QB's, we need to take in account productivity over a period of time, along with all of the "measureables." Vince Young was not considered a bonafide 1st round pick. Vince Young has really had only one good season of passing the ball. A lot of QB's have had one good statistical passing seasons. A body of work over multiple seasons is the best and safest way to evaluate a QB. Hell, Dave Ragone after his Junior season was considered a sure fire number 1 pick before he had a subpar Senior season. Omar Jacobs was the talked of the town after his great Sophomore season. Yet is he really going to be a 1st rounder this year after his disappointing Junior season.

Bottom line, I will be really happy with whoever we pick. I think Young and Bush are two of the most intriguing talents to enter the draft in years. I went to UT. I love Vince. But I'm a Houston fan first and everything else will always be secondary. I just hope in retrospect that we make the right decision.

[thacabbage]

damn, that was a great post.

[kaleidosky]

da man, solid post

[Cire]

Nice trade for the Texans, but I don't think it will happen.

[chow_yun_fat]

im worried that VY might not be that good in the pros. what if we trade carr and draft him and have losing seasons? will everyone still love VY or go to the games? i doubt it. the only thing that matters to most people is the W. remember when everyone here was all hoopla over JL III first game as a rocket? where's the love now?

[halfbreed]

im worried that VY might not be that good in the pros. what if we trade carr and draft him and have losing seasons? will everyone still love VY or go to the games? i doubt it. the only thing that matters to most people is the W. remember when everyone here was all hoopla over JL III first game as a rocket? where's the love now?

Did you just compare John Lucas III to Vince Young? :eek:

[Cire]

LOL, you are also anticipating unproven Carr to have a breakout year as he gets up in age. Carr will never carry a team, he is not a good leader.

[Deckard]

I'm tired of people degrading Reggie Bush, just to support their argument for Vince Young. I think both are tremendous prospects, and that we are very fortunate to have the opportunity in deciding the course of our franchise with the number 1 overall pick.
............

Great post. Best defense I've read of Bush, up 'til now. I'd still like the Texans to draft Young, but you make a strong case for Bush.

[Preston27]

Great post, Da Man. I'm on the Bush side, but still had fears about his durability. You pretty much made me much more comfortable with a pick of Bush.

The Chron should pay you and put that in the paper.

[BigM]

da man that was a hell of a post and probably the best non-biased support of reggie bush anyone could write. i'll be happy with either player as well but i'm very much leaning towards bush.

[ROCKSS]

Da Man - Great post. I will be excited whoever the Texans get, although I am leaning towards VY, but would be thrilled with Bush

[Desert Scar]

I'm tired of people degrading Reggie Bush, just to support their argument for Vince Young. I think both are tremendous prospects, and that we are very fortunate to have the opportunity in deciding the course of our franchise with the number 1 overall pick.

But let's clear up some things. Let's address all of the anti-Reggie Bush propaganda. Examples: "Reggie Bush will never be a workhorse back / Reggie Bush can't run between the tackles / Reggie didn't even have Pete Carroll's confidence in USC's most important game."

Fact, Reggie Bush carried the ball 200 times this year. He had more carries than LenDale White. Fact, Reggie Bush had 268 total touches this year (carries, catches, KR, PR). Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown split carries their last year at Auburn. I don't remember hearing about a lot of durability issues about them coming out of college. Williams never had a season where he touched the ball more than 260 times at Auburn. Bush had 268 touches this year.

Let's take look at this small back / big back issue. Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott. Warrick Dunn is 5'9", 180 lbs. He is a 9 year veteran and 31 years of age. He just rushed for 1400 yards this year with a 5.1 per carry average. Mike Alstott is the "Big Back" in the Bucs equation. 6'1", 248 lbs. 10 year veteran, 32 years of age. Mike Alstott is DONE! He hasn't been marginally effective since 2002. Warrick Dunn in college never had as many touches as Reggie Bush in College. In 1996, Dunn had only 219 touches at FSU.

Let's take a look at Tiki Barber. 5'10", 200 lbs. 9th NFL season, 30 years of age. He just rushed for 1800 yards this past season. Where's Ron Dayne? He of the great college stats, monster Rose Bowl games, and prototypical size.

How about Eddie George. After 9 NFL seasons, he's out of the league. Jerome Bettis stopped being a good every down back in 2001. Curtis Martin. All 5'10", 210 lbs lead the league in rushing last year and is a 11 year veteran.

If people are basing their claims that Bush cannot be an every down back because of his college career or his size, the evidence doesn't really support that claim. His 268 touches this past year is a pretty damn good workload. Size hasn't kept a lot of backs from being productive late in their careers. Running style is a bigger factor whether a back can be effective later in their careers. Barry Sanders proved that. Marcus Allen proved that. Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, and Warrick Dunn are proving that. Power backs tend to have fewer "prime" years. Eddie George, Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis, Natrone Means, Christian Okoye, and so forth.

Bush's running style precludes him from taking a lot of hits and I think that's going to help him stay healthy for his career.

Also, comparisons to Raghib Ismail and Desmond Howard are terrible. Ismail and Howard were wide receivers that returned kickoffs and punts. Their career paths are irrelevant when evaluating Reggie Bush as a multi-dimensional running back.

Next, Bush and the 2006 Rose Bowl. Bush prior to the 2005 college football season was considered a top of the round talent. Should we really hold it against Bush that he: a) was surrounded by tons of talent, b) split carries with another talented running back, or c) didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game.

Let's start with "a". If you are going to be a dominating, championship caliber team, you will be surrounded with tons of talent. Was Andre Johnson any less of a player because he only caught 60 passes for 1000 yards (not exactly jaw dropping numbers) on a superstar ladened Miami team? After all, how hard is it to achieve those numbers in college when you have an All-American QB, two Pro Bowl running backs, a Pro Bowl TE, and a couple of 1st rounders on the offensive line. No we shouldn't hold that against Andre Johnson, just as we shouldn't hold that against Bush.

Let's move on to "b", splitting carries with another talented back. Just because there are two talented backs in the backfield, it shouldn't be an indictment against the "other" talented back that he can't wrestle away all of the carries from the "other" back. Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams had what most would consider very good 1st seasons in the NFL. They had to split carries on college. Should we really hold it against Barry Sanders that he couldn't start ahead of Thurman Thomas while the two were at Oklahoma State. Barry didn't even split carries with Thurman Thomas his first two years. He was literally the backup.

Let's move to "c", didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game. Reggie Bush had 177 rushing and receiving yards in the Rose Bowl. Reggie Bush averaged 170 yards rushing and receiving during the 2005 season. Bush performed in the Rose Bowl as well as he performed all season long. Why is everyone so disappointed? Taking in account "Big Games" is sometimes an overrated stat. Ron Dayne was back-to-back Rose Bowl MVP. Tyrone Wheatley rushed for 250 yards in his last Rose Bowl game. Ryan Leaf had a great Rose Bowl in the national championship game against the 1997 Michigan Wolverines. Peyton Manning that same year threw for 150 yards with a couple of picks in his last bowl game. Or how about Andre Johnson being "shut down" by Chris Gamble in the 2003 BCS championship game? Putting too much emphasis on one game can some times lead to bad player evaluations.

When evaluating college players, especially QB's, we need to take in account productivity over a period of time, along with all of the "measureables." Vince Young was not considered a bonafide 1st round pick. Vince Young has really had only one good season of passing the ball. A lot of QB's have had one good statistical passing seasons. A body of work over multiple seasons is the best and safest way to evaluate a QB. Hell, Dave Ragone after his Junior season was considered a sure fire number 1 pick before he had a subpar Senior season. Omar Jacobs was the talked of the town after his great Sophomore season. Yet is he really going to be a 1st rounder this year after his disappointing Junior season.

Bottom line, I will be really happy with whoever we pick. I think Young and Bush are two of the most intriguing talents to enter the draft in years. I went to UT. I love Vince. But I'm a Houston fan first and everything else will always be secondary. I just hope in retrospect that we make the right decision.

I have major questions about Bush, whether that is "degrading" Reggie Bush is another question. I have had these questions BEFORE the Rose Bowl, and had made my claim VY was the best college player before, but that is another debate. I have watched a ton of SC games for 2+ years, so I think I have a pretty good handle on Bush's strengths, weaknesses, and questions as a football player.

Bush is a phenomenal open field runner and terrific in space. He also gets to top speed as quick as anyone and has terrific balance. In these respects Ismail or Peter Warrick is a very good analogy (let's not forget these two plus rbs like Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter, Bryan Westbrook, Sayers all seem a little injury prone or took career ending injuries, it is more of a crap shoot than you think). Open space is a lot harder to come by in the pros (it was a lot harder for Reggie versus Texas and OU than his West Coast opponents), you have to be effective other ways. Bush also seems very wirery strong in a 205 or so frame, but not Emitt Smith type strong when every play it seems he got 3-4 more yards than they play should have gotten based on final contact.

Bush is not an outstanding or instinctive between the tackles runner. The persons you list--Dunn, Barber, Cadillac, Martin or say also throw out there Faulk, Allen, Sanders and Dorsett (because if you take Bush #1 you think he is like these hall of famers, not merely a very good player like Dunn)--made livings outside and inside the tackles. All great RBs, no matter how fast they are, in the pros must make most their livings between the tackles to produce 1st downs. This requires instincts on blocks and slipping tackles in tight space and so forth. Bush might develop this, or he might not. I can say for certaintly though the evidence of his 1st down producing instincts from college are not like Dorsett or Faulk. Reggie Bush's instincts right now is to try to turn the corner and outrace everyone to the corner if their is a little traffic. That doesn't work in the pros. In fact speed as a RB isn't as critical as instincts (slipping tackles/reading blocks) and lower body strength--that is why Emmitt and Payton are your rushing leaders, neither guy known for top end speed. A few guys have unique blends of both--Faulk, Dorsett, Sanders.

I am not saying Reggie Bush won't be a great pro tailback or a workhorse. But to not consider he wasn't a workhorse in college nor consider that SC didn't give him the ball 3 strait times when a 1st down secures you a title should produce legitimate questions. Certainly enough questions that you should not say you have made up your mind to draft him without ever individually working him out nor considering another college player who just declared who showed a combination of athleticism, size, leadership, and composure that most who have watched big time college football have not ever seen before.

Overall the safest pick is probably Leinart. VY and Bush both have a lot of adjustments for the pro game to be dominating pro players--I have focused on Bush here but I could on VY as well. But I do take issue with someone saying Bush is a sure thing RB like Dorsett or Faulk or Sanders--probably the comparisons a Bush proponent want's to make, those guys did have more evidence for their case, you can't deny it. Maybe LenDale would be good enough to take critical carriers (with National Championships on the line) away from pure runners of their level, but I doubt it.

Further it would be criminal to have a knee jerk reaction and committ to Bush as the Texans publically are doing without bring the individuals out for workouts. Since the season is over Bush's ability to run between the tackles consistently is never going to be know, that is going to be a lasting question. Honestly unless Bush shows Deion like speed (4.25) and Vick-like lower body strength (500lb squats?)--which is possible, OR unless VY shows a really weak arm or comes out poor in mental tasks relevant to being an NFL QB, VY should be the #1 pick whether the Texans keep it or not.

[candlegreen]

nice long posts. It wasn't until I scrolled up that I finally remembered what the thread was all about. Overall, great derailing, but the posts are very well thought out.

I'm torn between VY and Bush, and frankly,I don't mind if they trade down for a 1st round (5-8) pick and get a nice package. I feel that VY coming out actually devalued the pick somewhat. Sure, there are more choices for the #1, but it's no longer the bonifide pick with so many players available.

Frankly, I'm still leaning towards Bush, but VY's attitude is one that the Texans sorely needed. He's direct and I love the little time he spends going through his progressions. That 4th down play where he looked off 2-3 receivers and ran with the ball will save him from lots of sacks. I just don't like how Carr seemingly locks on a receiver, which is probably one of the major causes of him not having great pocket presence. At any rate, I hope the Texans make the right choice this time, as I still do trust their evaluations over mine, although I do have my own opinions.

[Bassfly]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/


Rumors link Texans and Texas
By Kirk Bohls | Wednesday, January 11, 2006, 12:54 PM

Here’s a juicy, little rumor (or series of rumors) circulating:

The Houston Texans, who probably will hire Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak as their new head coach whenever Denver is eliminated from the playoffs or wins the Super Bowl, are considering sending quarterback David Carr to the Miami Dolphins in exchange for former Longhorn running back Ricky Williams and Miami’s first-round draft pick in 2007. Kubiak would hire former Longhorn great Jerry Gray as his defensive coordinator (Gray may want to bolt the sinking ship in Buffalo) and hire Texas’ Greg Davis as his quarterbacks coach. Davis has long had a close association with the Broncos. Maybe the Dolphins figure Williams is tainted goods, considering all his baggage and may think Carr is ready to blossom after going through all his growing pains in Houston. That could free up Houston to take Vince Young with the No. 1 pick on April 29. Sounds interesting.

[RocketFan007]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/

Interesting, Ricky and a first for Carr?

[hoang17]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/


This makes even that much better. I was okay with Ricky and a 2nd now it's a 1st, I would definitely do it.

Think about this:

Vince Young
Ricky Williams (making the minimum)
1st Round Pick (OT - Scott, McNeil, Winston)
2nd round (TE - Byrd)
2 3rd picks (OT, LB)

And honestly, with the way Ricky finished last season (last 2 games 270 yards rushing), I think he would flourish here helping out DD. Both him and DD would be a lot fresher (this is especially good for DD so he doesn't break down like he usually does) so I could see Ricky/DD each with 7-800 yards rushing each.

C'mon Saban, do it. :D

[RocketFan007]

hoang, the article say a 2007 first rounder, that would be next year.

[hoang17]

hoang, the article say a 2007 first rounder, that would be next year.

Oh, haha, yeah sorry I read through the exercpt a little too fast.

Hmm... '07 1st Rounder, I don't know..especially with this draft being so deep in each position (except WR). Our 2 most pressing needs on this offense is TE and OL and this draft is definitely deep in these 2 areas.

I think I would rather get a 2nd this year instead of a 1st next year. The 2nd this year would be mid 2nd. Yeah, get the 2nd Casserly.

[gucci888]

All great RBs, no matter how fast they are, in the pros must make most their livings between the tackles to produce 1st downs. This requires instincts on blocks and slipping tackles in tight space and so forth. Bush might develop this, or he might not. I can say for certaintly though the evidence of his 1st down producing instincts from college are not like Dorsett or Faulk. Reggie Bush's instincts right now is to try to turn the corner and outrace everyone to the corner if their is a little traffic. That doesn't work in the pros. In fact speed as a RB isn't as critical as instincts (slipping tackles/reading blocks) and lower body strength--that is why Emmitt and Payton are your rushing leaders, neither guy known for top end speed. A few guys have unique blends of both--Faulk, Dorsett, Sanders.


Good posts by both Scar and Da Man. My only question concerning Bush is his ability (or willingness) to run between the tackles. He's a good enough athlete to be a workhorse in the league, his one "bad" game still consisted of 172 yards of offense.

As Scar pointed out, Bush runs for the corner everytime, which obviously worked since he was hands down faster than any defender on the field. I think the RB game showed that if you contain the corners, you can stop Bush quite easily. I've seen a lot of USC games this season and I can probably count on one hand how many times Bush ran between the tackles, this is probably by design as well, but Bush's run game is almost all about beating the defenders to the sideline.

[leroy420]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/

Being an Austinite and a subscriber to the Statesman, I can honestly tell you to take anything Kirk Bohls says with a grain of salt. He is constantly wrong about things, especially when it comes to pro sports. He is probably reporting this from the same rumor that started this thread. The only difference is that it has apparently grown into Ricky and a 1st rounder. I just don't see it happening like this. I can see Miami being interested in Carr. I would have to think that it's more like Carr for Ricky and a 3rd or 4th round pick.

[Da Man]

Good posts by both Scar and Da Man. My only question concerning Bush is his ability (or willingness) to run between the tackles. He's a good enough athlete to be a workhorse in the league, his one "bad" game still consisted of 172 yards of offense.

As Scar pointed out, Bush runs for the corner everytime, which obviously worked since he was hands down faster than any defender on the field. I think the RB game showed that if you contain the corners, you can stop Bush quite easily. I've seen a lot of USC games this season and I can probably count on one hand how many times Bush ran between the tackles, this is probably by design as well, but Bush's run game is almost all about beating the defenders to the sideline.

This is my thinking in regards to Bush running for the corners. He averaged 8.7 yards per carry last year. If you can average 8.7 yards per carry, obviously the opposing defense can't stop you. Why run it between the tackles in college?

It's like telling Shaq at LSU to not take it down low, and instead show a perimeter game. If you are unstoppable in the low blocks, stay in the low blocks. If you are unstoppable running outside the tackles, keep running outside the tackles until you are proven otherwise. They said Grant Hill couldn't succeed in the pros until he developed the ability to shoot from the perimeter and drive left. The guy consistently drove right in the NBA to perennial All-Star status. Priest Holmes has made a terrific living in the NFL running toss sweeps. I think when Reggie Bush is given a chance at the next level, he will be able to show his versatile running game. The guy is compact and strong, benching north of 400 lbs. Time will tell in regards to his toughness and durability.

I can't get past 8.7 yards per carry. The last guy I can remember a guy rushing for north of 1600 yards with an rushing average that high is Barry Sanders (of course he did rushing for 2300 yards in 1988). 8.7 ypc is ridiculous nonetheless!

[reggietodd]

Da Man is Da Man!

Great posts.

[DaDakota]

I can't get past 8.7 yards per carry. The last guy I can remember a guy rushing for north of 1600 yards with an rushing average that high is Barry Sanders (of course he did rushing for 2300 yards in 1988). 8.7 ypc is ridiculous nonetheless!

It is amazing, but they were not playing even competition, a lot of those games the other teams defense was really bad.

Not to mention the USC line was amazing, and allowed him to go untouched a lot of the time.

He will not have that line luxury if he comes to the Texans.

Bush is an amazingly fast guy, but I just don't see him as a featured back, he was not the main guy at USC, though they had a dirth of talent.

I just see Vince as a game changer and a team leader, both of which the Texans SORELY need.

Can you be a leader at RB, sure...but QB is a more natural position for team leader....and Vince is every bit as eye popping as Reggie.

DD

[reggietodd]

It is amazing, but they were not playing even competition, a lot of those games the other teams defense was really bad.

Really bad defense? Kinda like USCs? (rose bowl). Ok. State, Texas A&M (ranked LAST!!!). Before the Rose Bowl, the consensus was that USC defense was horrible. So lets attribute VY's number to that. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the USC line was amazing, and allowed him to go untouched a lot of the time.

How about the Texas offensive line? Also Amazing. Correct?

He will not have that line luxury if he comes to the Texans.

Neither will VY.

Bush is an amazingly fast guy, but I just don't see him as a featured back, he was not the main guy at USC, though they had a dirth of talent.


Not a featured back? Why not, not big enough? At 6'0 200lbs i'd say he's plenty big, especially compared to featured backs like Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, and Curtis Martin. Oh yeah and Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen. He was not the main guy at USC because they had another 1st rd NFL running back on their team, had to split carries or else you are ruining Lyndell White's chanced at the NFL. Bush could have been the main guy no doubt about it. He had more carries than White did this year, so how was he not the main guy?

Bush got 8.7 yards per carry because the defenses he played were bad. :rolleyes: I guess they won 34 games in a row because they just played bad teams as well. :rolleyes:

[halfbreed]

Bush got 8.7 yards per carry because the defenses he played were bad. :rolleyes: I guess they won 34 games in a row because they just played bad teams as well. :rolleyes:

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what it is.

[DaDakota]

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what it is.

Both USC and UT played mostly bad teams....MOSTLY......thus their stats are indeed inflated.

DD

[NIKEstrad]

He had more carries than White did this year, so how was he not the main guy?


He had 3 more carries than White this year. It was basically as close to splitting time as you could come. Their freshman and sophomore years (when they one their 1.5 championships), White had significantly more carries.


How about the Texas offensive line? Also Amazing. Correct?

Certainly. In terms of YPC, their are actually some similarities between Ramonce Taylor/Jamaal Charles and Reggie Bush/LenDale White in their underclassmen years. The question will be if they can keep that up as their work loads increase (and if JC can avoid injuries) and make the leap. But as much as I like the UT line, that USC line was something else.

But what's relevant here, is VY is incredibly poised in the pocket, and extremely comfortable making plays out of the pocket. He also alleviates pressure on the line - his ability to hurt you if you blitz him makes opposing defenses more hesitant to flush him out of the pocket. Our O-Line woes are well documented, and teams look to attack it. We need an O-Line to protect our QB no matter who it is, but if you have a special athlete back there like Young, the line can focus on picking up the D-Line rather than worrying about a blitz package every down.

[thegary]

worrying about a blitz package every down.

it will definately take some outside-the-box thinking to maximize vy's talents in the nfl, no doubt, but the offense should dictate the action. the defense has to match up with vy, not the other way around.

[IROC it]

Both USC and UT played mostly bad teams....MOSTLY......thus their stats are indeed inflated.

DD


I agree. When your biggest challenges before the Rose Bowl are the current Notre Dame, Fresno St. and Texas Tech, OU...

Oh wait...

But I agree. :D

[Cohen]

Both USC and UT played mostly bad teams....MOSTLY......thus their stats are indeed inflated.

DD


Looking at win/loss records and esp. bowl results, I think the Big 12 was stronger than most realized this year. Did any conference appear that much stronger than the Big 12? I don't think so.

And there's no doubt that Big 12 D's are way better than Pac10s.

[Simon Honeybone]

Texas played 8 bowl eligible teams during the regular season of those 7 were selected and posted a record of 4-3.

USC played 6 bowl eligible teams during the regular season of those 6 were selected and posted a record of 3-3.

There is a reason UT's SOS ranking was higher and they were higher in the computers as a result even going into that game.

[hoang17]

Really bad defense? Kinda like USCs? (rose bowl). Ok. State, Texas A&M (ranked LAST!!!). Before the Rose Bowl, the consensus was that USC defense was horrible. So lets attribute VY's number to that. :rolleyes:



How about the Texas offensive line? Also Amazing. Correct?



Neither will VY.



Not a featured back? Why not, not big enough? At 6'0 200lbs i'd say he's plenty big, especially compared to featured backs like Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, and Curtis Martin. Oh yeah and Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen. He was not the main guy at USC because they had another 1st rd NFL running back on their team, had to split carries or else you are ruining Lyndell White's chanced at the NFL. Bush could have been the main guy no doubt about it. He had more carries than White did this year, so how was he not the main guy?

Bush got 8.7 yards per carry because the defenses he played were bad. :rolleyes: I guess they won 34 games in a row because they just played bad teams as well. :rolleyes:

Why is everytime somebody suggests what flaws Bush has, you have to apply it to Vince as well? Does it make what he says any less true? He's trying to make a point and alll you're doing is, "well Vince Young doesn't have it that hard either" :rolleyes:

I mean, is it NOT true that Bush makes all his spectacular plays bouncing outside the tackles? And is NOT true that in the NFL, everybody is a lot faster? HOw about the fact that he only got 13 carries in the national championship game and 3 more carries overall on the season compared to Lendale White? These are all assessments made on facts, not just opinions.

One thing, and there is no doubt about it, that separates Vince from Bush is Vince's Will and Determination. You can knock on his throwing motion or the fact that he's not going to be able to run in the NFL; I don't care. What I do know and you can take it to the bank on this is that he's going to find a way to succeed in the next level.

At Madison, people said that he couldn't hack it. When he got to Austin, people said he's just a wide receiver playing the QB position. Just like in the past, Vince is going to prove everybody wrong, and I want him to be a Texan when he does it.

[hoang17]

He was not the main guy at USC because they had another 1st rd NFL running back on their team, had to split carries or else you are ruining Lyndell White's chanced at the NFL.

So you're telling me that Carroll didn't want to hurt Lendale White's career so that's why he split the carries evenly. You gotta be kidding me. White should've been Bush's backup if Bush is the best player (RB) on that team. Then when Bush declares (like this year), White would return for his senior season and tear it up, making a name for himself. You have to admit them splitting carries speaks volumes on if Bush is actually that much better than White.

And if somebody brings up the Auburn situation with Cadallic and Ronnie Brown, this is not an accurate comparison. Cadillac and Brown were comparable too each other in talent. That's why they split carries. That's why the were both top 10 picks in the draft. So are you making the same assessment that Bush and White have the same amount of talent? Bush is the supposed "Heisman" trophy winner given to the best college football player in the nation. He shouldn't of split any carries with White if he was the best. Period.

[Simon Honeybone]

To further illustrate the B12's dominance of the P10 consider the following...
If the B12 going 2-0 against the P10 during bowl season isn't enough we blew the P10's doors off in the other games too as a whole especially when you take into account expectations.

The P10s bowl wins detailed... favored in all, 1/2 of the conference went bowling.

P10 5th place vs. Big East 4th place failed to cover spread by a large margin, opponent in first bowl since 1978.
P10 4th place vs. Mtn West 2nd place should have covered easily but went to sleep in the 4th quarter resulting in a push.
P10 3rd place vs. BT1e1n 5th place, won handily but B10 teams entering bowl season at 7-4 (4 teams) left at 7-5 including a 10 point favorite (Mich). The lone P10 team to cover was the other team from LA.

So there you have it the P10 went 3-2 (60%) straight up but lost the 2 bowls worth a damn and posted 2 entirely unimpressive wins along the way. Per the talking heads at ESPN the greatest conference on earth underachieved pretty significantly going 1-3-1 ATS. The poor B12 didn’t stand a chance in either game against the mighty P10.

The B12's bowl season was the polar opposite. Not only did the conference send 2/3 of its teams but those teams went 5-3 (62.5%) despite expectations that they were going to go 2-6. Texas Tech was the only favorite to lose and 4 dogs won in Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, & Texas. If you took the B12 teams you made out like a bandit as they got no respect. Kansas covered by 26 points, Nebraska by 15.5 points, Missouri by 11 points, Texas by 10.5 points, Oklahoma by 6 points, & Colorado covered by 1.5 points. Iowa State was a push & Texas Tech fell 5.5 points short. 6-1-1 is an awesome record and proves the B12 was underrated this season as the teams beat up on each other. Half of the dirty dozen covered by at least 10 points making the bets pretty safe too.

The Big 12 was down compared to past years but it wasn't chopped liver like everyone had written them off as Texas was just that much better this year because of Vince Young. Just look at his stats compared to Mike Vick who was the #1 pick over LaDanian Tomlinson and it is no comparison. Saying Mike Vick is a poor man's Vince Young is pretty accurate. To tilt the scales in Vince's favor even more you could certainly argue that the Big 12 was stiffer competition than the Big Least where you realistically had only Miami to deal with as legit competition.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if Reggie Bush can give LaDanian Tomlinson (5th pick) level productivity whereas I expect Vince Young to outperform Mike Vick.

[Yao Wink]

Carr trade denied in print (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9179722)

MIAMI - Fan websites continue to churn the idea of Houston QB David Carr being traded to the Dolphins in exchange for a package of RB Ricky Williams and either a first-, second- or third-round pick.

While there is some logic to the idea - the Texans could then take Houston native and Texas star QB Vince Young with the No. 1 overall pick - there's one really big problem.

Do the Dolphins want to pay $24.5 million over the next three years for Carr? That's the basic price. The breakdown is this: There are two options in Carr's contract. The first is that the Texans can pay him a $5.5 million bonus on Feb. 19 and then pay him base salaries of $5 million this year and $5.25 million in 2007. That's $15.75 million for two years.

The second is that Carr gets an $8 million bonus on Feb. 19 and base salaries of $5.25 million this year, $5.25 million in 2007 and $6 million in 2008. That's $24.5 million for three years. Neither price is appetizing for a guy who has a lot of potential but not much in results during his first four years.

The Texans could also not pick up the option and simply designate Carr as the team's franchise player. But that move only decreases his value because it means that a team acquiring Carr would have him on only a one-year deal.

In short, as one NFL executive said recently: ``The contract isn't tradable.''

[DaDakota]

Carr trade denied in print (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9179722)

MIAMI - Fan websites continue to churn the idea of Houston QB David Carr being traded to the Dolphins in exchange for a package of RB Ricky Williams and either a first-, second- or third-round pick.

While there is some logic to the idea - the Texans could then take Houston native and Texas star QB Vince Young with the No. 1 overall pick - there's one really big problem.

Do the Dolphins want to pay $24.5 million over the next three years for Carr? That's the basic price. The breakdown is this: There are two options in Carr's contract. The first is that the Texans can pay him a $5.5 million bonus on Feb. 19 and then pay him base salaries of $5 million this year and $5.25 million in 2007. That's $15.75 million for two years.

The second is that Carr gets an $8 million bonus on Feb. 19 and base salaries of $5.25 million this year, $5.25 million in 2007 and $6 million in 2008. That's $24.5 million for three years. Neither price is appetizing for a guy who has a lot of potential but not much in results during his first four years.

The Texans could also not pick up the option and simply designate Carr as the team's franchise player. But that move only decreases his value because it means that a team acquiring Carr would have him on only a one-year deal.

In short, as one NFL executive said recently: ``The contract isn't tradable.''

You never know.....if the Dolphins thought he was coming into his own...ala Steve Young from Tampa Bay...they might take him.

DD

[JayZ750]

If the Dolphins, who are in desperate need of a quarterback, have overachieved, at this point are thought to have a better than average staff, etc., aren't willing to pay Carr's salary, why should we....just something to think about.

[The Cat]

If the Dolphins, who are in desperate need of a quarterback, have overachieved, at this point are thought to have a better than average staff, etc., aren't willing to pay Carr's salary, why should we....just something to think about.

Because it's not as simple as signing him for that... in addition to taking him for that price, they'd have to give up Ricky Williams and a third round pick, both legitimate assets. They also haven't seen Carr in practice and don't have nearly as much history to use in making a judgment on his value.

[JayZ750]

Because it's not as simple as signing him for that... in addition to taking him for that price, they'd have to give up Ricky Williams and a third round pick, both legitimate assets. They also haven't seen Carr in practice and don't have nearly as much history to use in making a judgment on his value.

Just basing it on that piece, though...that isn't the BIG problem. The BIG problem is his salary.

[gr8-1]

How about the Texas offensive line? Also Amazing. Correct?




Nope. Texas's OL, like every other unit on the football team is barely average. UT just played a weak schedule.

[gucci888]

Nope. Texas's OL, like every other unit on the football team is barely average. UT just played a weak schedule.

Are you serious?

[mogrod]

Nope. Texas's OL, like every other unit on the football team is barely average. UT just played a weak schedule.

LOL, what!!? I don't really follow college sports, let alone college football, so I can't really say how their team compares to others, but they DID win the championship against arguable THE BEST team in the country. How is that "barely average"?

I hate to be rude, but that is probably THE dumbest thing I have ever seen posted on here.

[Joshfast]

Nope. Texas's OL, like every other unit on the football team is barely average. UT just played a weak schedule.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5903/11192041102827tx.gif

[Harrisment]

Nope. Texas's OL, like every other unit on the football team is barely average. UT just played a weak schedule.

I think you're joking.....aren't you?

If not I agree that is the dumbest thing I've ever read here. And I've seen a lot of BS in my day.