Can Carr Take Texans to Superbowl?

[Cohen]

Does he have it in him or not?

[rocket_red]

I think Carr will be a decent QB with a decent offensive line in front of him. We have tor realize that the four years he's been here the OL has sucked big time. He has an average of like 1 second to throw the ball before he is demolished!

In answer to your question, I think he will be good, but not Super Bowl good.

[Luckyazn]

Carr reminds me of Jake Plummer

Carr cant take the team to the Superbowl by himself like Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Aikman.


He needs to be in a "very good system/team" like Seattle, Denver, Carolina.

[Cohen]

Do you think he can improve, play smarter (w/ a better O line)?

Does he have the intangibles? Is he a leader?

Do we see him rallying the troops anything remotely like an Elway or Montana?

[Luckyazn]

Do you think he can improve, play smarter (w/ a better O line)?

Does he have the intangibles? Is he a leader?

Do we see him rallying the troops anything remotely like an Elway or Montana?

Rally the troops? NO! ... complaining YES! He doesnt have IT in him. He's just a decent QB.

10yrs from NOW Carr NEVER be in Steve Young, Favre, Elway, Manning, Brady, Aikman level shoot he wont even be in Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon level

Right now he can be replace by a Jon Kitna, Doug Johnson, Jeff George, Kelly Holcomb type QB and we'll be the same.

[DVauthrin]

Rally the troops? NO! ... complaining YES! He doesnt have IT in him. He's just a decent QB.

10yrs from NOW Carr NEVER be in Steve Young, Favre, Elway, Manning, Brady, Aikman level shoot he wont even be in Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon level

Right now he can be replace by a Jon Kitna, Doug Johnson, Jeff George, Kelly Holcomb type QB and we'll be the same.]

Then why are you in favor of keeping him now when a potential franchise quarterback and hometown legend is sitting there ready to be picked. Especially considering he is a winner EVERYWHERE he has been. He got Madison as far as they had been in a long time/if not ever, and he completely changed the attitude of our program(UT) that will reverberate strongly for a long time to come. Not to mention all the 4th quarter/2nd half comebacks.

[Da Man]

Carr reminds me of Jake Plummer

Carr cant take the team to the Superbowl by himself like Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Aikman.


He needs to be in a "very good system/team" like Seattle, Denver, Carolina.


Troy Aikman never tooked a team to the Super Bowl by himself.

[percicles]

Send his a$$ 2 the Raiders where his college coach Pat Hill might get a job. Ill take a 2nd rounder at this point.

Then watch as Warren Sapp slaps his a$$ for wanting his daddy to attend practices.

[Luckyazn]

Can we trade Carr/2rd pick/ and a future 1st RD to Tenn for the #3 pick


Draft Vince Young #1 and Bush #3

[Luckyazn]

Carr can take us to the Bush Bowl/Toilet Bowl

but not

THE SUPERBOWL

[rocket_red]

I seriously doubt if we had #3, that Bush would be available. Don't you think New Orleans would pick him at#2 if he were still out there. Now if we could somehow get 1 and 2, then we would be set!

[Luckyazn]

I seriously doubt if we had #3, that Bush would be available. Don't you think New Orleans would pick him at#2 if he were still out there. Now if we could somehow get 1 and 2, then we would be set!


I think NO would take Leinart to replace Brooks they already have DUECE.

[Cohen]

If your QB can't get it done, wouldn't you want to use a #1 on a QB (whichever one that may be)?

[Blatz]

I voted maybe, maybe no. What did you vote?


Happy Vince Young Day everyone!!

[rhester]

Nope.
The first time the Texans go (how ever many years from now) Carr may not even be in the league. (of course they could fire Casserly tomorrow and change my thinking)

[RocketMan Tex]

Carr would only be able to take the Texans to a Superbowl as part of a very good "system" team as luckyazn posted earlier in this thread. He cannot do it by himself.

[rhester]

a very good "system" team

I rest my case, until Casserly is gone the chance of getting a good team is nil.


Casserly went to Washington as GM the year they won the Super Bowl under Bobby Bethard's leadership as GM. It took him 4 yrs to ruin the franchise. This season is their first trip back to the playoffs.

[The Real Shady]

With a good supporting cast anybody can lead you to a Super Bowl. Over the last 10 years Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Brad Johnson, Kerr Collins, Neil O'Donnell, and Stan Humphries have led their team to the Super Bowl.

So hell yes Carr can take you there.

[Harrisment]

I think the Texans could win a Super Bowl with car. Hell, in recent years Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have won Super Bowls.

[Raven Lunatic]

I wouldn't say that Trent Dilfer had "it". But he made it and won. Football is all about systems. If the Texans decide they want to keep Carr, then I think they need to prepare themselves for the possibility that he will not have what it takes to get the team there through his contributions. If he progresses, becomes a decent pocket passer that doesn't make a lot of mistakes, then this team can win with a decent line, a good defense and Reggie Bush. But the team (ie Casserly) needs to realize that is the case and not try to build an offense that is only successful if Carr performs like a franchise QB. Unfortunately, I don't have enough faith in Casserly and co. to do that, so I want Vince Young, a guy that can take you there with his abilities, and doesn't necessarily have to have a hugely talented team surrounding him. But I would not be upset with Bush since I think he can take us there too.

[MadMax]

i've seen lesser QB's than David Carr play in and win the Super Bowl.

[rhester]

I think the question is worded wrong.

It should be can Casserly get the Texans to the Super Bowl.

Carr on the Pittsburgh Steelers would have a shot because of the defense and the running game.

Carr on Carolina Panthers would have a shot for same reasons.

Get rid of Casserly and I change my vote on Carr.

[DaDakota]

Carr is an average QB....he has shown NOTHING in 4 years to make anyone think otherwise.

Coaching or not, he is NOT ever going to be a superstar QB.

Sell high.......baby.

Draft Vince.

DD

[MadMax]

Carr is an average QB....he has shown NOTHING in 4 years to make anyone think otherwise.

Coaching or not, he is NOT ever going to be a superstar QB.

Sell high.......baby.

Draft Vince.

DD

i heard charlie pallilo (spelling?) speculate yesterday that all the "we love david..he's our guy" talk was to help facilitate trading him. he was saying, certainly no one could feel that way...but you'd have to talk that way to help convince a team to give you more in return for him.

[A-Train]

Sure he can. All he needs is a CDL driver's licence and a big bus. Getting tickets might be a little tough, though...

[World B Free]

Carr reminds me of Jake Plummer

Carr cant take the team to the Superbowl by himself like Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Aikman.


He needs to be in a "very good system/team" like Seattle, Denver, Carolina.


hhahaha, Manning has never "takken a team to the superbowl by himself"

and if you think Terrell Davis and Emmit Smith didn't help Elway and Aikman get to the Superbowl, you are sadly mistaken....

I mean come on.... Aikman had the best O-Line in the league at the time...the all time leading rusher.... Michael Irvin..... and a great defense...... give Carr all of that then start to judge him........

[stevel]

Carr is an average QB....he has shown NOTHING in 4 years to make anyone think otherwise.

Coaching or not, he is NOT ever going to be a superstar QB.

Sell high.......baby.

Draft Vince.

DD

He has shown toughness, competitiveness, a strong arm, and that he is a team player. How can you judge this guy when, if you look objectively at his tenure here, he has had one legit WR, no TE, a terrrible pass blocking O-line, and poor coaching.

If you watch the last couple of Texans games, they had a graphic about Carr's passer rating in the pocket vs outside the pocket. In the pocket his rating was below 70, outside the pocket his rating was over 100.00. This was for the season. If he had time to throw he would absolutely been more effective. How many balls did Bradford drop - is that Carr's fault? Gaffney was hit several times in the arms and the back of the head with the ball when running routes because he was not looking for the ball - is that Carr's fault?

The line was soo bad that we had to resort to a ridiculous 3 step drop offense that became so predictable a high school coach could have defended it - is that Carr's fault? The coaching staff would only let him audible to running play or switch the side of the run - that was ridiculous. Talk about putting the handcuffs on a player. Bradford was released at the end of last season, and not one of the other 31 teams offered him a contract, and he STARTED for us!

I have no problem if like VY better than Carr, that is your choice, but making these sweeping statements that Carr will NEVER be anything more than medicore or average is stupid. I have found your comments regarding the Rockets to be insightful and you clearly know alot about B-ball. However, I think your football knowledge is lacking.

[mateo]

Can we trade Carr/2rd pick/ and a future 1st RD to Tenn for the #3 pick


Draft Vince Young #1 and Bush #3


Hey it only took 9 posts for someone to type "Vince Young" in a Texans thread. Thats gotta be a new record for the post Jan 4 era.

[MadMax]

hhahaha, Manning has never "takken a team to the superbowl by himself"

and if you think Terrell Davis and Emmit Smith didn't help Elway and Aikman get to the Superbowl, you are sadly mistaken....

I mean come on.... Aikman had the best O-Line in the league at the time...the all time leading rusher.... Michael Irvin..... and a great defense...... give Carr all of that then start to judge him........


i agree. it's a team effort. i've seen very average QB's win the super bowl.

but one thing you're forgetting about Elway...that guy is Exhibit A when it comes to putting your team on your shoulders in pro football. At least in my lifetime, anyway. Those teams he took to the Super Bowl in the 80's were not good teams...and they beat teams far better than they were. There was no Terrell Davis then...there was Sammy Winder and the Three Amigos. :) I've never seen a QB do more with less than John Elway. He's the standard by which I measure all other QB's.

[Buck Turgidson]

Great frikken post, stevel.

[The Real Shady]

i've seen lesser QB's than David Carr play in and win the Super Bowl.

David Carr > Trent Dilfer

[stevel]

I think the question is worded wrong.

It should be can Casserly get the Texans to the Super Bowl.

Carr on the Pittsburgh Steelers would have a shot because of the defense and the running game.

Carr on Carolina Panthers would have a shot for same reasons.

Get rid of Casserly and I change my vote on Carr.

You have hit the nail on the head. Both Casserly and Capers have done an incredibly poor job with the Texans. I expect this to be Casserly's last year with the team as general manager. I could see him being moved into a front office position as Justice mentioned in his article this morning. There is not one QB in this league that has less to work with on Offense except Smith in SF and Farve in GB due to injuries to key players this season.

Even the freakin Bears have more talent on offense than us, and they are painful to watch. I love that D though.

[MadMax]

David Carr > Trent Dilfer

absolutely. no question about it.

[The Real Shady]

absolutely. no question about it.

Whoops, I misread your post. I thought you said you've never seen lesser QB's....

[MadMax]

Whoops, I misread your post. I thought you said you've never seen lesser QB's....

no..i think david carr is a good QB. not a great QB..but a good one.

did you read justice's blog?? he says he thinks carr will end up being a better qb than leinart.

[rhester]

You have hit the nail on the head. Both Casserly and Capers have done an incredibly poor job with the Texans. I expect this to be Casserly's last year with the team as general manager. I could see him being moved into a front office position as Justice mentioned in his article this morning. There is not one QB in this league that has less to work with on Offense except Smith in SF and Farve in GB due to injuries to key players this season.

Even the freakin Bears have more talent on offense than us, and they are painful to watch. I love that D though.

Let me say this about Capers- his philosophy has always been to build a great defense and have a ball control offense with a grinding ground attack.
That's what he was at Carolina and that is what he did as a coordinator.

He never had the cover corners, the hard hitting safeties, the edge pass rushers and the run stopping def. interior to succeed on defense. The closest he had was season #1.

He never had the pounding ground game he likes or the tight end to run block and catch.

Capers was always a coach who believed in keeping the score down and winning and having a shot to win every game in the fourth quarter.

I am not saying that is right wrong or good or bad- just that he never got the talent for his scheme.

I am sure Casserly tried to get the right players but he failed. And he primarily failed in rounds 2-7 and in the free agent market.

We never should have given 5 first day draft picks for Babin and Buchanon that was the nail in the coffin. We never should have drafted Dave Ragone behind David Carr that wasted a 3rd round pick, we never should have taken Tony Hollings in the supplemental draft that cost a 2nd round pick, we never should have passed on Derrick Johnson or tried to make Seth Wand into something he wasn't- a 'real' sleeper.

We wasted 7 first day draft picks when we had holes all over the team.

Poor drafting and trading will bring a team down to its knees faster than anything, even injuries.

I didn't care if they fired Capers or not as long as Casserly left.

Well- good luck Texans- let's see what decisions Casserly makes this off season.

(BTW- I think Casserly is a nice, decent guy, nothing personal- just can't stand to see us make so many bad moves and set the franchise back- nothing personal it's a performance issue IMHO)

[stevel]

I think that Caper's downfall had to due more with his choices of OC and DC. This is where the bad coaching came from. I wouldn't have minded Capers staying for one more year as HC and DC and hiring either Linehan or Kubiak as assitant HC and OC. Did you get a chance to hear Gary Walker's interview after Caper's was fired on 610? He ripped Fangio, absolutely ripped his defence. He said the D we ran wasn't Caper's D. He played under Capers in Jax, and said his D was ALOT different than ours.

[rhester]

I think that Caper's downfall had to due more with his choices of OC and DC. This is where the bad coaching came from. I wouldn't have minded Capers staying for one more year as HC and DC and hiring either Linehan or Kubiak as assitant HC and OC. Did you get a chance to hear Gary Walker's interview after Caper's was fired on 610? He ripped Fangio, absolutely ripped his defence. He said the D we ran wasn't Caper's D. He played under Capers in Jax, and said his D was ALOT different than ours.


True- I've heard alot from John McClain on radio that the Texans didn't have good asst. coaching

[reggietodd]

With a healthy AJ, DD, Bush, and Mathis. YES

[rrj_gamz]

Great frikken post, stevel.

What he said...

However, its a "what have you done for me lately" league and on paper, he hasn't produced...He is also prone to make poor decisions, but I think that's due to him always running for his life...I would still take VY as he has more potential and upside...

[stevel]

What he said...

However, its a "what have you done for me lately" league and on paper, he hasn't produced...He is also prone to make poor decisions, but I think that's due to him always running for his life...I would still take VY as he has more potential and upside...

Now I will agree with the statement that VY absolutely has more upside. I just get tired of people that have no idea what they are taking about railing on Carr. He has never been given a legitmate chance to succeed. Look at what happen to Culpepper earlier in this past season. He lost a bunch of guys on offense, Moss, O-lineman, OC and he struggled mightily. This was a guy with a QB rating of over 100 from the 04 season. You could make a strong case that overall the Vikes still had more talent than we did on O.

[Cohen]

Wow...the poll split pretty evenly.



As the draft approaches, this may get out of hand.

[Luckyazn]

Well the PLAYOFF shows you need a SOLID D team to move on.


NE/Pitts/Wash/Carolina

[DaDakota]

Why does everyone APOLOGIZE for Carr?

He has had 4 years....what type of leadership did he show? HUH?


How was that 2-14 year this year H-town? Carr.....is AVERAGE at best...AVERAGE !!

And he is a poor leader.

4 years is long enough....time to pick up stakes.....franchise Carr, draft Young and let the chips fall where they may.

DD

[Luckyazn]

Carr is Tim Couch part 2

[jopatmc]

This poll is very interesting. Split, almost down the middle. It shows the uncertainty of whether or not Carr can get the job done. Do we have the same poll for Vince?????

[MadMax]

Carr is Tim Couch part 2
but we should keep him and draft bush?

[Luckyazn]

but we should keep him and draft bush?



but I like Bush enough to keep him, but wont mind if we traded him.
Carr is easily replaced Brad Johnson, call Rich Gannon out of retirement, shoot even John Kitna can do what he does.

Seems like get Bush and keep Carr
or
Draft VY and miss out on Bush

[MadMax]

but I like Bush enough to keep him, but wont mind if we traded him.
Carr is easily replaced Brad Johnson, call Rich Gannon out of retirement, shoot even John Kitna can do what he does.

Seems like get Bush and keep Carr
or
Draft VY and miss out on Bush

i think i'm more confused now. but it's cool. carr=kitna?? riiighhhtt.

[Rocket River]

I don't think so

I think he could goto the superbowl
but only in a TRENT DILFER type fashion

I don't want a GAME MANAGER
I want a QB

Rocket River
Carr's Mentor. . . Dilfer
Young's Mentor. . . . McNair

[stevel]

Why does everyone APOLOGIZE for Carr?

He has had 4 years....what type of leadership did he show? HUH?


How was that 2-14 year this year H-town? Carr.....is AVERAGE at best...AVERAGE !!

And he is a poor leader.

4 years is long enough....time to pick up stakes.....franchise Carr, draft Young and let the chips fall where they may.

DD

No one needs to apologize for the dude. Look if you don't like him that is fine, but it is completely unfair to judge this guy based on his time here. Again, the line didn't block for him, as a group we have the one of the poorest WRs group in the NFL, and we have no TE. It would be difficult for anyone to succeed under these circumstances, period.

[percicles]

Does it bother anyone that Criss Simms has taken his team to the post season while Carr has lead his team to the Toilet Bowl????

Crissy even had a game winning comback drive.

[dskillz]

I voted no. That is based on when he was asked on multiple ooccasions this season to throw a simple out to a WR and the ball ended up hitting a coach on the sideleines or thrown right to a CB. I am basing that on the fact that early in the season they had to tell him to throw the ball away instead of running out of bounds and losing yards for the team. I am basing that on the fact that if Carr hits a receiver 2 times in the 1st quarter he will get locked on that WR all game and attempt to throw into triple-coverage and ignore wide open WRs in the process.

If you want to blame the O-line, why don't you go back and look at games when he actually had time to throw and still played like crap. Look at the Steelers game when he ran into more sacks than the line gave up. True, the O-line has not played well, but when they have David has looked like a rookie out there.

The bottom line for me is Vince actually worked his tail off in the off-season to become a better passer for this season. He has shown leadership that Carr will never have. Vince's potential is over and above David's. I know that Vince will continue to strive to be the best. I feel that David has been content with using the O-line as a crutch for all these years. Basically thinking if they suck he doesn't need to strive to be a better player either. That kind of attitude infects an entire locker room when it comes from your "leader". Also, his entire acceptance of the coaches telling him he can't option to a pass really showed me David's competitive fire or lack of. You are telling me a QB in his 4th year is going to accept not being able to audible to a pass when seeing 9 guys in the box?

I have done a complete 180 on VY. Not totally because of the Rose Bowl, but looking at game DVDs, looking at simple passes that David cannot seem to make, decisions he can't make. The same passes and decisions VY is making right now. Hey, I know I am not going to change anyone's mind with my post, just telling you what I came up with after doing some serious research since I have no life, lol.

[Harrisment]

He has shown toughness, competitiveness, a strong arm, and that he is a team player. How can you judge this guy when, if you look objectively at his tenure here, he has had one legit WR, no TE, a terrrible pass blocking O-line, and poor coaching.

If you watch the last couple of Texans games, they had a graphic about Carr's passer rating in the pocket vs outside the pocket. In the pocket his rating was below 70, outside the pocket his rating was over 100.00. This was for the season. If he had time to throw he would absolutely been more effective. How many balls did Bradford drop - is that Carr's fault? Gaffney was hit several times in the arms and the back of the head with the ball when running routes because he was not looking for the ball - is that Carr's fault?

The line was soo bad that we had to resort to a ridiculous 3 step drop offense that became so predictable a high school coach could have defended it - is that Carr's fault? The coaching staff would only let him audible to running play or switch the side of the run - that was ridiculous. Talk about putting the handcuffs on a player. Bradford was released at the end of last season, and not one of the other 31 teams offered him a contract, and he STARTED for us!

I have no problem if like VY better than Carr, that is your choice, but making these sweeping statements that Carr will NEVER be anything more than medicore or average is stupid. I have found your comments regarding the Rockets to be insightful and you clearly know alot about B-ball. However, I think your football knowledge is lacking.


Wow, an intelligent post. Those have been tough to come by in here lately. Very nice stevel.

[DaDakota]

I said this in another thread, but it is more relevant here.


If David Carr was available in the draft AGAIN, this year, after 4 years in the NFL...he would NOT be the top pick...probably not even in the top 20.....

He is an average QB.....at best.

We need to move on...

DD

[VesceySux]

http://www.fresnofamous.com/photos/8ball.jpg

[DaDakota]

I have no problem if like VY better than Carr, that is your choice, but making these sweeping statements that Carr will NEVER be anything more than medicore or average is stupid. I have found your comments regarding the Rockets to be insightful and you clearly know alot about B-ball. However, I think your football knowledge is lacking.

LOL - lacking, because I have a different opinion than yours?


Look, I wanted to like David Carr, but the guy has simply not progressed, he still locks onto one receiver, he still takes sacks because he does not throw the ball away, he still gets too flustered if hit early, and the plain fact is that he has been beat up so much that he may never reach the potential he had coming out of Fresno State.

I can not think of any starting QB that was pretty mediocre for 4 years and then came on, even with a change in coaching.

I think Carr is what he is, an average QB in the NFL....if he was on a team with a better line, he would play better, but nothing spectacular, IMHO.

I think Vince Young will bring an entirely new dimension to the NFL QB...teams will have to worry as much about him running as throwing, and he is by far the superior athlete.

I just see Carr as a nice guy, who tried hard, but for some reason just does not have "IT", and Vince has "IT" and a bag of chips.

DD

[RocketJedi]

Uh huh, Elway took his team to the Superbowl before Terrell Davis. But what happened once he got there? Spanked by the Redskins, Giants, and Niners. It took more than Elway to win the Superbowl and it will take more than Young OR Carr for the Texans to do the same. Namely a defense.

But I see a Carr/Bush combo as being better than a Young/Davis combo, particulalry in the near future.

[rhester]

So it sounds like Dan Reeves and Charlie Casserly are firmly in David Carr's corner.

They draft Reggie Bush or trade the pick

Casserly gets a good player (probably Bush) in the first round and blows 3 of the next five picks.

Texans improve to 7-9 next season and Casserly's contract is extended 2 yrs.
GM blunders cause team to finish 6-10 in 2007 and Vince Young is leading Titans to 10-6 record.

Texan Fan looks angry. :eek:

[stevel]

So it sounds like Dan Reeves and Charlie Casserly are firmly in David Carr's corner.

They draft Reggie Bush or trade the pick

Casserly gets a good player (probably Bush) in the first round and blows 3 of the next five picks.

Texans improve to 7-9 next season and Casserly's contract is extended 2 yrs.
GM blunders cause team to finish 6-10 in 2007 and Vince Young is leading Titans to 10-6 record.

Texan Fan looks angry. :eek:

I really think this is Casserly's last year here as GM, unless he hits on the majority of his picks this year. I am hoping that one of the tackles falls to the 2nd where we can pick him, and in the 3rd maybe a TE and then best available player with the 2nd pick of the 3rd.

[DaDakota]

So it sounds like Dan Reeves and Charlie Casserly are firmly in David Carr's corner.

Or this is what they are saying to pump up Carr's trade value.

DD

[rhester]

Or this is what they are saying to pump up Carr's trade value.

DD

Nope.

I am convinced that Casserly drafted Carr and sincerely believes he has been poorly coached. And right or wrong Casserly has genuine faith that Carr will become very good.

He may be right, but the chances are slim.

Carr is decent and he can be better, but it's not enough for me to pass on Vincent Young.

I mean do we pass on Reggie Bush because Dominique Davis is a good running back?

I am about to give up on VY because of Casserly. I emailed the team and begged for VY, but I'm tired of Casserly.

[DaDakota]

Nope.

I am convinced that Casserly drafted Carr and sincerely believes he has been poorly coached. And right or wrong Casserly has genuine faith that Carr will become very good.

He may be right, but the chances are slim.

Carr is decent and he can be better, but it's not enough for me to pass on Vincent Young.

I mean do we pass on Reggie Bush because Dominique Davis is a good running back?

I am about to give up on VY because of Casserly. I emailed the team and begged for VY, but I'm tired of Casserly.

I think Bob McNair will have a MAJOR say in this, and he understands that most of the fans want Vince....In the end, I will bet that the fans desires for the hometown hero win out.

Vince will be a Texan, IMHO....

DD

[rhester]

I really think this is Casserly's last year here as GM, unless he hits on the majority of his picks this year. I am hoping that one of the tackles falls to the 2nd where we can pick him, and in the 3rd maybe a TE and then best available player with the 2nd pick of the 3rd.

I hope you are right.

I went back and looked at Casserly's record at Washington and it was frightening to me.

I think he is very smart but he has not been able to translate it to building successful NFL rosters. I don't know why.

[rhester]

I think Bob McNair will have a MAJOR say in this, and he understands that most of the fans want Vince....In the end, I will bet that the fans desires for the hometown hero win out.

Vince will be a Texan, IMHO....

DD

You inspire me. :)

[Raven Lunatic]

I think Bob McNair will have a MAJOR say in this, and he understands that most of the fans want Vince....In the end, I will bet that the fans desires for the hometown hero win out.

Vince will be a Texan, IMHO....

DD

I think you are putting too much faith in McNair. Carr was almost as much his boy as he was Casserly's when we drafted him (I think they are buddies), and it would seem McNair doesn't want to admit they were wrong on David anymore than Casserly.

[The Cat]

Why does everyone APOLOGIZE for Carr?

He has had 4 years....what type of leadership did he show? HUH?


How was that 2-14 year this year H-town? Carr.....is AVERAGE at best...AVERAGE !!

And he is a poor leader.

4 years is long enough....time to pick up stakes.....franchise Carr, draft Young and let the chips fall where they may.

DD

None of us are in any position to make calls on leadership ability unless we're on the field or in the lockerroom. I'm someone who wants Vince Young, and I'm not convinced we would be much better than 2-14 if we had Peyton Manning or Tom Brady under center.

Does it bother anyone that Criss Simms has taken his team to the post season while Carr has lead his team to the Toilet Bowl????

Crissy even had a game winning comback drive.D

Four of them, actually, and would've been 6 in 11 games if not for a missed chip shot field goal vs. the Bears and a dropped touchdown against the Redskins. If you're going to go with the childish insults, at least get the facts straight.

Also, Simms had the number one defense in the entire NFL on the other side, while Carr had the 31st... that might've had just a bit to do with why he had more success in terms of wins and losses than David Carr.

22 players on the field at a time and more than 50 on each roster... it's not just a game of quarterbacks, people.

[stevel]

Also, Simms had the number one defense in the entire NFL on the other side, while Carr had the 31st... that might've had just a bit to do with why he had more success in terms of wins and losses than David Carr.

22 players on the field at a time and more than 50 on each roster... it's not just a game of quarterbacks, people.

Amen brother.

[RocketJedi]

Also, Simms had the number one defense in the entire NFL on the other side, while Carr had the 31st... that might've had just a bit to do with why he had more success in terms of wins and losses than David Carr.

22 players on the field at a time and more than 50 on each roster... it's not just a game of quarterbacks, people.


This is the truth. It's like all the ESPN experts who were touting Kyle Orton and how well he managed games. Please that Bear defense is special and carried Chicago to wins when Orton was in there. But as soon as he faltered, and Grossman was healthy then suddenly Orton was just a rookie. Which is why the Texans need a defense to go with whoever they take; Bush, Young, OR Ferguson.

[Fegwu]

No one needs to apologize for the dude. Look if you don't like him that is fine, but it is completely unfair to judge this guy based on his time here. Again, the line didn't block for him, as a group we have the one of the poorest WRs group in the NFL, and we have no TE. It would be difficult for anyone to succeed under these circumstances, period.

You know on second thought I see that your posts are mostly based on emotions and not football facts. I am convinced that you know little to no football from the excuses you keep coming up - I had to say that because you were the one to first call someone else out.

Again excuses excuses.

You can say we do not have a WRs and TEs of good reput but that is an excuse. I like to believe that a great player elivates his teammates and not the other way round. We at least have Adre - some teams do not have a descent WR talkless of having one in the calibre of Andre. I wish I was more in the mood to do the stats thing and break down of other NFL teams this season and some years back to show that David's case (what he had to work with) is/was not necessarily unique or worthy of constant excuses.

Sure it will be more desirable to have everything perfect or above par but that is what makes David average. He needs things to be near perfect to amount to something. He does not have "it". The point for me is not necessarily about David's service-ability but the greatness that is Vince.

I am confident that a second year Vince would have had more success with this current team. I trully believe that David was a mistake to be chosen as the overral #1 - there is nothing special about him. I understand that only about 20% of #1 overrall end up becoming hall of famers but we could have done better with Peppers. But as it has turned out, David helped in getting Vince Young.

The summary of my rant is this - David Carr needs everything to be almost perfect (excuses, inc.) to succeed or be serviceable in the NFL. I do not want to settle for that not with the opportunity to have a true great in the making like Vincent. I will allow any form of excuses for David fool me into commiting a generational mistake.

This reminds me of the excuses Steve Francis enjoyed after his 3rd season - enough already.

[swilkins]

Carr will stay and put up the best numbers of his career in 2006.

I don't think Carr was to blame for the last 4 years. I don't even put the majority of the blame on the line. I blame coaching and development.

That will soon change.

With Carr, Bush, a few draft picks and better coaching and development, this team will be a new confident Texans team.

The grandmother option was a little too rediculous.

[The Cat]

Sure it will be more desirable to have everything perfect or above par but that is what makes David average. He needs things to be near perfect to amount to something. He does not have "it".

Near perfect? Are you kidding? Having things merely below average would be a huge step up for David... this is the worst offensive line in the history of the sport at this level, and the tight ends aren't much better. You won't find many analysts to disagree with either of those.

If Carr really does need things "near perfect" or "above par", I'll give up. You win. But you can't determine that at this point. At some point, you need to surround him with average talent before you can make such bold statements. To this point, he hasn't, and until he has, it's simply not possible for him to have "it". Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Vince Young wouldn't have "it" either if they played in this system.

You call it excuses, excuses. I call the other side simplistic. To act as if one player in a 22-person game can and should succeed (if he's great) no matter the circumstances is simplistic. Imagine if Peyton Manning were allowed to quarterback a high school team. The first response from most of us would be that that team wouldn't ever lose. Now, imagine that every player other than Manning were taken off the team and replaced with junior high athletes. Even with Peyton, that team would be lucky to win a game.

That analogy fits with how the Texans are relative to the rest of the league. The offensive line and tight ends - supposedly the quarterback's "best friends" - are the junior high team while every other team is at the high school level. Do you really expect the quarterback with the lesser surrounding talent to show "it" or be "great"? I don't, no matter how great he is. You can call it excuses if you want; to have the same expectations for a quarterback in the Texans system that you would for a quarterback in a normal system is simplistic, imo.

(I will state again for the record, though, that I am in the Vince Young camp, provided we can get some decent compensation for Carr via trade.)

[Uprising]

He has shown toughness, competitiveness, a strong arm, and that he is a team player. How can you judge this guy when, if you look objectively at his tenure here, he has had one legit WR, no TE, a terrrible pass blocking O-line, and poor coaching.

If you watch the last couple of Texans games, they had a graphic about Carr's passer rating in the pocket vs outside the pocket. In the pocket his rating was below 70, outside the pocket his rating was over 100.00. This was for the season. If he had time to throw he would absolutely been more effective. How many balls did Bradford drop - is that Carr's fault? Gaffney was hit several times in the arms and the back of the head with the ball when running routes because he was not looking for the ball - is that Carr's fault?

The line was soo bad that we had to resort to a ridiculous 3 step drop offense that became so predictable a high school coach could have defended it - is that Carr's fault? The coaching staff would only let him audible to running play or switch the side of the run - that was ridiculous. Talk about putting the handcuffs on a player. Bradford was released at the end of last season, and not one of the other 31 teams offered him a contract, and he STARTED for us!

I have no problem if like VY better than Carr, that is your choice, but making these sweeping statements that Carr will NEVER be anything more than medicore or average is stupid. I have found your comments regarding the Rockets to be insightful and you clearly know alot about B-ball. However, I think your football knowledge is lacking.


Great post! I quoted the whole thing because I think it should be on page 3 for others to read.

As for the topic of the thread, I believe Carr can and will do just that some day. I'm excited about next season.

[VesceySux]

Carr is in a terrible position right now. The team is getting new coaches and new schemes, which will only lead to further growing pains and losses (until the team gets it down pat). However, if Carr doesn't start with like 15 TDs and 0 INTs out of the gate, the public outcry will be deafening. So, the rest of the team will get to play the "new coach" card, but Carr will not receive any(more) patience from the fans. Blame Vince Young.

Furthermore, if we do indeed take Bush, and he doesn't put up Priest Holmes numbers and win Rookie of the Year honors, the public outcry will also be deafening. Blame ESPN... and Vince Young.

[gucci888]

I applaud Carr for the toughness he's shown the past 4 years, no other QB has taken more hits than Carr in my opinion. But that doesn't negate the fact that Carr has something to do with that as much as the OL, coaches, etc...

I'm starting to feel more and more that Carr was just a product of a system. Don't get me wrong, he had an unbelievable senior season w/ Fresno State, but the WAC conference isn't exactly cut throat and still ended up losing 3 games his senior season to bad teams.

There were no better QBs at the time, but that doesn't really make a good case for being the #1 pick. It's like if the Texans started this season and were looking to draft a QB #1 but with no Leinart or VY, you're left with the next best QB (Jay Cutler), would we have picked him?

[DKAIII]

I don't know if David Carr can lead the Texans to a Super Bowl appearance, but I am fairly confident that he would not prevent us from making an appearance. He may never develop into a John Elway, but he certainly is already a much better quarterback than either Joey Harrington or Aaron Brooks have proven to be.

In fact, have the Texans even ever put Carr in a position to perform at an above-average level, much less succeed?

Think about it for a second.

In Carr's final collegiate season, he threw for 4,839 yards and beat big-time programs Colorado, Oregon State, & Wisconson. He finished fifth in the nation for the Heisman. Heck, he finished the regular season by throwing for 432 yards & 6 touchdowns in 2 & 1/2 quarters. He then threw for 531 yards & 4 TD's against Michigan State in their bowl game.

If David Carr was available in the draft AGAIN, this year, after 4 years in the NFL...he would NOT be the top pick...probably not even in the top 20.....

I don't know if Carr would be the top pick again this year if he were coming out in a draft containing Bush, Leinart and Young, but I don't think with this kind of collegiate career that he would be dismissed as a less-than-top-20 talent. Come to think of it, the nation might be debating whether the Texans should start their franchise with one of the most electrifying tailbacks anyone has seen in years, that tailback's cool-headed senior who led his team to one of the most remarkable runs in recent years (AP: #1, #1, & #2), the mature gun-slinger from the small school who always performed and put up mind-boggling numbers, or the incredibly gifted local hero who slew the dragon in its own lair and then promptly ate a herd of buffalo and washed it down with the Mississippi River. Hard to say.

Whatever, I digress.

In the year 2002, the Texans chose Carr number one in the draft. Now, from what I have seen, the most successful way to develop a young, talented quarterback is to allow him to sit on the bench for a period of time, learn behind a talented veteran, than put him on the field with a team that would have some weapons in place to allow him learn & hopefully not kill the team's chances to be moderately successful at the same time. Also, maybe have a quarterback coach that can tutor him. You know, some semblance of stability would be pretty fresh as well. It worked for one way or the other for Carson Palmer, Marc Bulger, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, & Byron Leftwich.

Instead, we threw Carr out to the wolves with an offensive line consisting of some really stunningly bad lineman (Chester Pitts started every game that year and it was only about his third year of playing organized ball for pete's sake), a receiving corp who's most talented players were Cory Bradford & a converted wide-receiver at TE, and a dual-headed rushing attack of James Allen & Jonathan Wells. Remarkbly enough, the Texans finished dead last in just about every offensive catergory. Carr threw for 2,600 yards, 9 touchdowns, and 15 picks. Instead of sitting behind another quarterback and learning, he was sacked approxiamately 2,364 times. He was able to make small talk with Tony Banks between hits from the smelling salts and beat the Cowboys however, and I will forever be indebted to him for that.

Since that incredible start, Carr's performance did improve, culminating with a a career highs last year of 3,500 yards (61.2% completion), 16 TD's, and 14 int's. The team also finished with a 7-9 record. None of these stats are outstanding, but it was pretty clear that improvement was being made. The Cleveland debacle ended the whole thing horribly.

This year everything fell apart, obviously. The offense played pretty close to horrific at times, the defense was betrayed by the losses of Sharper and Glenn and the addition of Buchanon. Just how much of that was Carr's fault? His ineffective OC was replaced by the guy who guided the O-Line to remarkble success and his QB coach was was a "standout defensive player at John Carroll University" (from the Texan's official website) with no NFL experience as a player, much less a quarterback. Most damaging of all was probably Davis' and Johnson's injury-plagued seasons. Granted, Carr looked pretty bad, but if your automobile had a flat tire & a broken windshield, I bet that you would look like quite an idiot on the 610.

[stevel]

You know on second thought I see that your posts are mostly based on emotions and not football facts. I am convinced that you know little to no football from the excuses you keep coming up - I had to say that because you were the one to first call someone else out.

Again excuses excuses.

You can say we do not have a WRs and TEs of good reput but that is an excuse. I like to believe that a great player elivates his teammates and not the other way round. We at least have Adre - some teams do not have a descent WR talkless of having one in the calibre of Andre. I wish I was more in the mood to do the stats thing and break down of other NFL teams this season and some years back to show that David's case (what he had to work with) is/was not necessarily unique or worthy of constant excuses.

Sure it will be more desirable to have everything perfect or above par but that is what makes David average. He needs things to be near perfect to amount to something. He does not have "it". The point for me is not necessarily about David's service-ability but the greatness that is Vince.

I am confident that a second year Vince would have had more success with this current team. I trully believe that David was a mistake to be chosen as the overral #1 - there is nothing special about him. I understand that only about 20% of #1 overrall end up becoming hall of famers but we could have done better with Peppers. But as it has turned out, David helped in getting Vince Young.

The summary of my rant is this - David Carr needs everything to be almost perfect (excuses, inc.) to succeed or be serviceable in the NFL. I do not want to settle for that not with the opportunity to have a true great in the making like Vincent. I will allow any form of excuses for David fool me into commiting a generational mistake.

This reminds me of the excuses Steve Francis enjoyed after his 3rd season - enough already.

You sir are a moron.

None of my arguements are based on emotion, just fact. It is a fact we have a terrible WR corp. Yes, Andre is a STUD, but when you only have one WR all the defense has to do is roll coverage his way or double cover him and it makes it very difficult to get him the ball. I remember a game where a TV analyst made a comment that the defense did not have to cover Bradford because he was defending himself, dropping so many open passes. I have seen Gaffney get hit with the ball on pass routes because he wasn't looking for the ball. We don't have a TE that can get open and catch the ball down the field which helps draw the attention of the safties. I don't think I need to point out the shortcomings of our O-line. No QB can consistently perform with the kind of pass rush Carr was under this year.

I would trade Carr in a heartbeat if it would help the team. I would trade anyone in a heartbeat to help the team. I do think it is difficult to judge how good or bad a QB Carr is based on his time here because he did not have help. QBs don't block, they don't get open, and they don't catch passes. All QBs need help period. In Seattle's game this weekend everyone was talking about how well Hassleback played, and he played well, but Jackson made some terrific catches. If he dropped those balls they would have lost. If you don't like Carr fine, just say I don't like him, I would prefer VY. I would say good for you. But, your arguements are moronic, and they show that YOU know nothing of football.

They only thing you said that makes any sense is that the Texans might have been better off taking Peppers. I think darfting a QB in that stage of our program might have been a mistake because they wasn't much help for him (regardless of who the QB was).

DKAIII great, insightful post!

[Fegwu]

You sir are a moron.



You are the compound moron here.

You make little to no sense - just a heap of excuses. Enough already silly - believe what you want to believe and let it be then :rolleyes:

[Agent27]

You are the compound moron here.

You make little to no sense - just a heap of excuses. Enough already silly - believe what you want to believe and let it be then :rolleyes:

I must concur with stevel. You are without a dobt a closeminded moron.

[stevel]

You are the compound moron here.

You make little to no sense - just a heap of excuses. Enough already silly - believe what you want to believe and let it be then :rolleyes:

Look bro, it is obvious that you do not understand the game of football. You may watch games, but you do not understand what is going on during play. If you did you would see that my points have validity. Again, if you just don't like Carr and thinks he sucks - good for you. I have no problem with that. If you would prefer VY to Carr - good for you - you are entitled to have that opinion. You can say whatever you want about Carr -free speech and all that, but the bottom line is he has never had help here. Despite what you think all QBs need some help. Montana had Rice, Taylor, Rathman, Clark, and Craig. Marino had Clayton and Duper. Aikman had Irvin, Smith, Novacek, Harper, and Moose. Manning has Harrison, Clark, Wayne, and James. The list goes on and on. QBs need some help and Carr hasn't had much. AJ is a stud and he missed games this season, which hurt the team. DD hasn't played a full 16 game schedule in any of his seasons yet. Don't even get me started on the coaching.

Again, I am not making excuses nor apologizing for Carr. I don't have to, the situation speaks for itself. I would trade him in a heartbeat if I thought it would improve the team.

[Fegwu]

I must concur with stevel. You are without a dobt a closeminded moron.

And you are an openminded f00l then. Idiot.

[BigSherv]

Dilfer took the ravens to the big game. Carr is way better than dilfer

[DaDakota]

Dilfer took the ravens to the big game. Carr is way better than dilfer

Why do you say that?

What has he done to prove that he is better than Dilfer?

DD

[percicles]

Dilfer took the ravens to the big game. Carr is way better than dilfer

...and that Raven Defense is way better than ours.