ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Sonics 12/15/2005

[busta_cap]

Mcgrady - what can you say. I've never seen a player like him.

These last two games have been two of the better back to back basketball games I have seen. Great entertainment. The bad thing is with the late starts
and great games, my neighbors probably hate me.

God's upstairs patting Himself on the back for creating Tmac.

And the neighbors, well if they aren't Rockets fans and/or don't understand ... screw 'em.

[DribbleHooper]

mad props for the bullets my nig.

Can't have guns widdout bullets. :p :D

[RocketForever]

That's a good point. They did ref him different after that. But did they give him a technical? I was too wrapped up in listening to Craig Ackerman go crazy during that part of the game. If they did, he needs to do that more often. It works. If the refs think they got a hot head on their hands they are going to watch him more carefully and call the foul so he doesn't lose it.

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/PDA10512120456.jpg

[MartianMan]

Great run. It doesn't even matter what team we beat because the chemistry of the team is being forged during this long road trip. Their mentality, demeanor, and confidence has become stronger than ever. The only thing that worries me is that Tmac played basically the whole game today. I don't want to see Tmac playing more than 40+ min a game, esp. so soon after the injury. Then again, we probably wouldn't have won without him.

[jopatmc]

You know we've been playing like this with the same, old, small, slow perimeter players that we were losing with before. The only difference has been adding McGrady to the lineup. We've got Wesley playing out of position, just leaving it all on the floor every night, and the last few games, we've had Moochie out there directing the team. How do you trade guys like Wesley that play with so much heart????? But we desparately need a decent point guard (we need Rafer back) and we desparately need one more younger perimeter player who is a top defensive player and can hit the jumper. How are we going to acquire them without having another Jim Jackson situation on our hands? If I were Wesley, and I was playing as hard as he has been playing, I would be totally toasted if I were moved to some schmuck team after giving so much to help us win.

Times like these have to be the toughest on the coach and the GM. They know they've got to upgrade, but who is not "buying in" and working hard? Even Juwan, whom I've been severly disappointed in this season, stepped it up tonight. Who do we get rid of? It would be so much easier to pull the string on a deal if we were losing.

[blazer_ben]

Good on howard for stepping up, but that dosent the fact that i still would like to see him and his contract off our books.

[KeepKenny]

How bout Tmac draining that 3 after being fouled not once, but twice by radmonovic? Once, on the way up, and then on the elbow. What a badass.

Yao is still getting some of the worst calls I've ever seen. Now they're randomly calling him when he goes up for rebounds and smaller players get in the way. They let Potapenko foul his arms from behind all night, but when he knocks the rebound out of Fortson's hand it's an automatic call. That flop by Fortson was terrible. Yao commits about two dumb fouls, 1 legit unavoidable foul, and two bogus fouls per game.

[count_dough-ku]

The only thing that worries me is that Tmac played basically the whole game today. I don't want to see Tmac playing more than 40+ min a game, esp. so soon after the injury. Then again, we probably wouldn't have won without him.


That won't happen too often once the team gets healthy. Without Derek Anderson, Rafer Alston, Jon Barry, and Bob Sura right now, T-Mac's gonna have to play heavy minutes. You know you're short-handed when Moochie's getting significant playing time.

[noize]

Yao needs to stop turning the ball over all the time, or else he would be a star.

[choujie]

Yao needs to stop turning the ball over all the time, or else he would be a star.

He can't. He's avaraing like 2 bogus offensive fouls or travels every game.

[DribbleHooper]

Breathlessly awaiting both the Warriors & Sonics highlights clips. :D

[KeepKenny]

He can't. He's avaraing like 2 bogus offensive fouls or travels every game.

That's usually true, but he definately did not handle the double teams too well tonight. I think it's because he just hasn't faced conventional doubles that often in his career. Guys never seem to be in a place for him to find them. Maybe theirs a coaching element to the problem.

[LongTimeFan]

That's usually true, but he definately did not handle the double teams too well tonight. I think it's because he just hasn't faced conventional doubles that often in his career. Guys never seem to be in a place for him to find them. Maybe theirs a coaching element to the problem.

I think a lot of it has to do with his passing. Everyone here assumes Yao is a great passer because he flipped it over his head to Moochie 3 years ago. The truth is he's an average passer, maybe a little below due to his strength. Yao doesn't have the vision or strength Dream had when passing out the double team.

[Mikeylu]

the game is already out for D/L...

http://www.mininova.org/get/178411

torrent...woohoo..have fun with that :cool:

[ansarisu]

This team is playing "I will help you" basketball. The block on Tracy and the follow up, hustle steal by Wesley was the highlight of the game for me.

Wesley, JVG and others have earned their grilling. They now earn our applaud.

And someone give Yao and Standing O for the angriest dribble (the technical he got) hes ever done. We need more.

.500...here we come.

[lost_elephant]

I think a lot of it has to do with his passing. Everyone here assumes Yao is a great passer because he flipped it over his head to Moochie 3 years ago. The truth is he's an average passer, maybe a little below due to his strength. Yao doesn't have the vision or strength Dream had when passing out the double team.

I see the problem is movement on offense. We have none. When Yao has the ball in the pivot, no one is breaking from their man, or cutting to the basket. When we started sending cutters down the lane, we started getting easy baskets. Those two Bowen layups stand out in my mind. Tonight, we saw the same thing when Stromile was handling the ball in the highpost and hit Moochie with a couple passes as he was cutting. Vitaly tonight pushed Yao out a little further off the block, and when he turned, another defender was there, but instead of hitting a cutter, he was forcing passes to guys who were just standing there waiting. We need to continue this trend of adding more motion to our offense.

[blazer_ben]

One area that we can still improve is our movement off the ball. cutting to the basket without the ball is non-exsistent. primeter defense is still another.

[canoner2002]

I think a lot of it has to do with his passing. Everyone here assumes Yao is a great passer because he flipped it over his head to Moochie 3 years ago. The truth is he's an average passer, maybe a little below due to his strength. Yao doesn't have the vision or strength Dream had when passing out the double team.

I think Yao is a good passer. In the previous game, he hit Bowen again and again with laser sharp passes. In this game, he hit Mooch with good passes. And look at those passes to Tmac he made from above the key. Those are the best passes Tmac have received with this team. In his rookie year, he made that slap pass which I will never forget. He was spontaneous and creative. I remeber watching his clips from his first year, and saw his creative passes caught teammats off guard during trainings. Unfortunately some of his creativeness vanished, partially due to the structured offense we run. The bottomline is for a guy his size and weight, he is a very good passer. Don't compare him with guards who make passes for a living.

[Xerobull]

Nice win... Let's tack on three more to this streak and we will have turned the corner.

[blazer_ben]

Yao is a descent passer for his mamoth size. but he is nowhere near the passer the dream was. hakeem had the uncanny ability to hit our spotup shooters even if he was triple teamed. yao could'nt hold hakeems jock straps even if he tried.

[superpro]

Did you guys catch the travel call on Yao in the fouth quarter? Tmac made a perfect pass, Yao made a step and dropped it in and was called travel.

Is that a travel, or is it just the refrees simply don't think he is agile enough to make that move? Pissed me off! And that was the call down the stretch, could have cost our game.

[rrj_gamz]

Great win, and a lot of bad calls...a win is a win...

[dandorotik]

Did you guys catch the travel call on Yao in the fouth quarter? Tmac made a perfect pass, Yao made a step and dropped it in and was called travel.

Is that a travel, or is it just the refrees simply don't think he is agile enough to make that move? Pissed me off! And that was the call down the stretch, could have cost our game.

He shuffled his feet just slightly. Kobe, T-Mac, Shaq may or may not have gotten away with it, but certainly Yao wouldn't. It was a travel, though- but a great play, nonetheless.

[fa7999]

He shuffled his feet just slightly. Kobe, T-Mac, Shaq may or may not have gotten away with it, but certainly Yao wouldn't. It was a travel, though- but a great play, nonetheless.

TNT showed the replay and both Reggie and Doug said that they did not see where the travelling was coming from.

In an era where Lebron can take 5 steps to the hoop without worrying about travelling call, it does seem a little bit too harsh that Yao is not even allowed for 2 steps.

I was very glad that he showed his emotion by getting the T. It must surprised the refs a bit since they began to give him calls late in the game.

[dandorotik]

Yao is a descent passer for his mamoth size. but he is nowhere near the passer the dream was. hakeem had the uncanny ability to hit our spotup shooters even if he was triple teamed. yao could'nt hold hakeems jock straps even if he tried.

Now that's just ridiculous. Couldn't hold his jock strap? Where do you get off making inane comments like that? Hakeem didn't become a great passer until the early 1990's, and it wasn't like he was the second coming of Magic Johnson. Very good passer? Yes, certainly. Miles ahead of Yao? No. That's based on watching Hakeem every other day literally from 1986 through 1998 during the season. And it wasn't just Hakeem- if you watch those games, it was often Hakeem who passed to someone- who then hit the open man- that was a play they ran frequently.

Hyperbole is effective in some respects, but let's have some perspective here.

[dandorotik]

TNT showed the replay and both Reggie and Doug said that they did not see where the travelling was coming from.

In an era where Lebron can take 5 steps to the hoop without worrying about travelling call, it does seem a little bit too harsh that Yao is not even allowed for 2 steps.

I was very glad that he showed his emotion by getting the T. It must surprised the refs a bit since they began to give him calls late in the game.
Yes, but when they showed the replay, they didn't show his footwork. Trust me, the first second I saw that play I thought, "Damn, they're going to call him for traveling" and they did. They'll continue to get better at that play.

[roswell raygun]

The Rockets' scores in the fourth quarter of the 4 games on this road trip:
33-16 in Sacramento.
32-29 in Portland.
27-21 in Golden State.
31-27 in Seattle.

The team isn't yet overwhelming opponents with talent like I had hoped, but they are making the plays they need to at the end of each game.
The difference, as everyone knows, is McGrady, who has brought the term "closer" to basketball.
Had McGrady just played the last 6 minutes of the games with New Orleans, Orlando, Miami, Chicago and the first Memphis game, I think all of those would have been wins.
14-7 is a much more realistic indication of how good this team is than 9-12.

[hotballa]

Yao is a descent passer for his mamoth size. but he is nowhere near the passer the dream was. hakeem had the uncanny ability to hit our spotup shooters even if he was triple teamed. yao could'nt hold hakeems jock straps even if he tried.

canoner = "Yao's a good passer"

blazer_ben's reply in response = "he can't hold Hakeem's jockstrap!"

me = wth?

or for analogy

canoner = "that cheeseburger's good"

blazer_ben's reply in response = "it's not even in the same league as filet mignon!"

me = wth?

[LongTimeFan]

I think Yao is a good passer. In the previous game, he hit Bowen again and again with laser sharp passes. In this game, he hit Mooch with good passes. And look at those passes to Tmac he made from above the key. Those are the best passes Tmac have received with this team. In his rookie year, he made that slap pass which I will never forget. He was spontaneous and creative. I remeber watching his clips from his first year, and saw his creative passes caught teammats off guard during trainings. Unfortunately some of his creativeness vanished, partially due to the structured offense we run. The bottomline is for a guy his size and weight, he is a very good passer. Don't compare him with guards who make passes for a living.

What about to Dream? or Brad Miller? Or Shaq? I'll give you that Yao is a creative passer. But he doesn't have the strength to send a laser out of a double team to the opposite side of the court. Did you see how weak he bounce passed back out to the open man on the same side as him? I discredit his passing due to his strength. Maybe I was spoiled growing up watching Dream. Maybe this is a better way to put it.. Yao knows when to pass.. he just doesn't always have the strength to make a good pass.

I wasn't trying to compare him to Steve Nash or Tmac. People want Yao to be more centered in the offense and passing like Brad Miller does for Sac. I'm just saying that that's not a realistic option - Yao's not that good of a passer. Hopefully as he gets stronger, he'll be able to make sharper passes. And the reason the man who delivers the entry pass doesn't move is to give Yao an out pass. He has trouble passing across the court, so they keep a man on his side to bail him out and swing it.

[droxford]

This will certainly be a telling game:

Do the Rockets have enough gas in their old tanks to win two nights in a row?
....against tough opponents?
... on the road?
....in the middle of a 6-game road trip?
... in the Pacific time zone?

This game will be an indicator of just how tough we are.

yes.
... yes!
... YES!
... YES!
... YES!

Fantastic win for the Rockets! We really showed our mettle last night!!!

[noize]

I'm surprise no one had address our poor rebounding, where we could've blown the game wide open. We got out rebounded bad, and the Sonic were getting offensive rebound every other possession, yet we still won /bc of our good shooting and the defense down the stretch.

[J DIDDY]

Yao is a descent passer for his mamoth size. but he is nowhere near the passer the dream was. hakeem had the uncanny ability to hit our spotup shooters even if he was triple teamed. yao could'nt hold hakeems jock straps even if he tried.



u must really hate YAO since u pretty much use every opportunity to bash him. for the record YOU couldnt hold Yao's jock strap.

[droxford]

u must really hate YAO since u pretty much use every opportunity to bash him. for the record YOU couldnt hold Yao's jock strap.

Sorry to pick on you, but we actually type out the word "you" on this bbs. You can leave that "u" stuff on the little 13-year-old kiddie forums.

[Kyrodis]

What about to Dream? or Brad Miller? Or Shaq? I'll give you that Yao is a creative passer. But he doesn't have the strength to send a laser out of a double team to the opposite side of the court.
When it comes to passing centers, none of these guys even hold a candle to Arvydas Sabonis. Even in his aged NBA form, the man could fire an unbelievably accurate laser pass with Magic-esque court vision. It's really a shame the NBA never got to see him in his prime.

Anyways, good points...and I definitely agree. Yao is an above average passer in that he knows when and where he should pass. However, unless the player he's passing to is close by, his passes are a bit wobbly. They can get picked off pretty easily since they have no juice on them.

[krnxsnoopy]

Sorry to pick on you, but we actually type out the word "you" on this bbs. You can leave that "u" stuff on the little 13-year-old kiddie forums.

sorry to bash you but i think that is irrelevent... the point is, the guy constantly bickering about yao... nothing's ever good enough... too many "but's"... it DOES get annoying

[hotballa]

What about to Dream? or Brad Miller? Or Shaq? I'll give you that Yao is a creative passer. But he doesn't have the strength to send a laser out of a double team to the opposite side of the court. Did you see how weak he bounce passed back out to the open man on the same side as him? I discredit his passing due to his strength. Maybe I was spoiled growing up watching Dream. Maybe this is a better way to put it.. Yao knows when to pass.. he just doesn't always have the strength to make a good pass.

I wasn't trying to compare him to Steve Nash or Tmac. People want Yao to be more centered in the offense and passing like Brad Miller does for Sac. I'm just saying that that's not a realistic option - Yao's not that good of a passer. Hopefully as he gets stronger, he'll be able to make sharper passes. And the reason the man who delivers the entry pass doesn't move is to give Yao an out pass. He has trouble passing across the court, so they keep a man on his side to bail him out and swing it.

You wasted a decent post. Canoner is NOT comparing Yao to anyone. What is the point of bringing up all those other people? did Canoner say Yao was the best passer in the league? no he said Yao was a good passer.

[lost_elephant]

What about to Dream? or Brad Miller? Or Shaq? I'll give you that Yao is a creative passer. But he doesn't have the strength to send a laser out of a double team to the opposite side of the court. Did you see how weak he bounce passed back out to the open man on the same side as him? I discredit his passing due to his strength. Maybe I was spoiled growing up watching Dream. Maybe this is a better way to put it.. Yao knows when to pass.. he just doesn't always have the strength to make a good pass.

I wasn't trying to compare him to Steve Nash or Tmac. People want Yao to be more centered in the offense and passing like Brad Miller does for Sac. I'm just saying that that's not a realistic option - Yao's not that good of a passer. Hopefully as he gets stronger, he'll be able to make sharper passes. And the reason the man who delivers the entry pass doesn't move is to give Yao an out pass. He has trouble passing across the court, so they keep a man on his side to bail him out and swing it.

I think the Brad Miller example is a poor one. He's not throwing bullet passes, nor is he doing anything like Magic Johnson used to. He sits at the high post and hits cutters. Two things that we don't do. We don't put Yao in the high post, and we don't cut. When you put your pivot in the high post, he has the whole floor to work with, whereas, when you set him up on baseline, he loses half of the court and its easier to trap with the 2nd man. Brad doesn't face double teaming at the top of the key...

[Mack]

One encouraging thing about Yao lately is he isn't running out of gas at the end of games. Yao wasn't leaning over with his hands on his knees or visibly dragging behind very often. He was able to get very deep post position at the end of the game and didn't look tired at all, even at the end of a back-to-back game.

[Rockets2K]

Sonics Highlights clip torrent (http://bbs.smeggysmeg.com/videos/121505_SonicsHighlights.torrent)


still havent solved the technical problems that are plaquing me right now, so Im having to rerun the full gmae encode...Ill release it in the morning problably.

sorry

[blazer_ben]

Now that's just ridiculous. Couldn't hold his jock strap? Where do you get off making inane comments like that? Hakeem didn't become a great passer until the early 1990's, and it wasn't like he was the second coming of Magic Johnson. Very good passer? Yes, certainly. Miles ahead of Yao? No. That's based on watching Hakeem every other day literally from 1986 through 1998 during the season. And it wasn't just Hakeem- if you watch those games, it was often Hakeem who passed to someone- who then hit the open man- that was a play they ran frequently.

Hyperbole is effective in some respects, but let's have some perspective here.

Hakeem had had that unbeliveble great court awarness which helped his passing ability. yao simply dosent have that awarness just YET. . that in noway equates to he will never reach that level, but at this point, he dosent have that awarness yet. the rockets relied heavily on hakeems passing ability. we had a game plan that we had surronded hakeem with deadly spotup shooter who were all ready when the opposing defense collapsed on the dream to nail the open look. the 2 championships just proves how good the dream was.

[blazer_ben]

u must really hate YAO since u pretty much use every opportunity to bash him. for the record YOU couldnt hold Yao's jock strap.

No buddy. i've stoodup for yao on alot of occasions here. when people were asking for his head to be traded, i asked for patience. yao is yao, period. no point comparing with the dream. . for his size, yao is a good passer.i've also said that JVG should bring yao to the high post and run some motion offense. dont go off on me over one post.

[snowmt01]

Hakeem had had that unbeliveble great court awarness which helped his passing ability. yao simply dosent have that awarness just YET. . that in noway equates to he will never reach that level, but at this point, he dosent have that awarness yet. the rockets relied heavily on hakeems passing ability. we had a game plan that we had surronded hakeem with deadly spotup shooter who were all ready when the opposing defense collapsed on the dream to nail the open look. the 2 championships just proves how good the dream was.


Sorry but Dream's passing was just so-so. Adequate for a center but that's about it.

I dont think it is a stretch to ask Yao to pass like Dream someday.
He might have a lot of TOs but Dream was averaging ~3.4 TOs anyway.

[blazer_ben]

Most of dreams Turnovers were " aggressive" TO's. when you are expected to dominate the offense and are the primary option, turnovers are bound to happen.

[scutmb]

dream is great. His support cast also very good. Maxwel, Horry, cassel, smith,Erie. Man, if we have these young five guys around T-mac and Yao, we have very good chance to win another one. Looking how many titile Horry win, how much improved the team who got cassel, you knowhow good these" role players "are. Looking our starters: howard, wesley, bowen. I am not sure how much Dream and Clyde can do with these supporting casts.

Man, life is good in these days, why do you bring dream anymore, dream is not going to help us win anymore. If you suppot rockets,support their stars now, NOt jsut bash bash. Do you know how many assistants Dream had every game?

[Donatello]

Can someone put up a yousendit link or upload the file to some other sites such as rapidshare?

Thanks, greatly appreciated.