After Watching David Carr Today...

[Joshaaronb]

How can anybody doubt that this guy is the real deal. Give him a number two reciever and a solid o-line and this guy will light it up. Corey Bradford should be cut on Monday.

[MadMax]

i'm a carr fan...but i'm not sure what you saw today that makes you so excited. he held the ball too long on at least 2 of the sacks. he made poor throws to open receivers. he threw into double coverage at the end of the game when his stud receiver was wide open on a crossing pattern that would have gotten us a first down.

i like david carr. i don't think he's the problem. but i also don't think today bolsters his cause any.

[reggietodd]

I'm not a Carr fan, but I will agree he looked pretty decent today. But not 8 million dollars decent.

[rikesh316]

Anybody see the argument between Gary Walker and David Carr at the end of the game. Finally someone stands up Carr.

[geeimsobored]

If our offensive line hadn't gotten messed up toward the end (i.e. making mckinney the center and bringing in seth freaking wand), I'm convinced we wouldve won. The line was fairly solid today until the big shakeup and Jonathan Wells held his own in the running game. Carr is still making some mental errors now and then but he did a decent job overall.

[The Real Shady]

David Carr can be a very accurate passer when given time. However, his field vision and decision making may never be that great.

[studogg]

David Carr can be a very accurate passer when given time. However, his field vision and decision making may never be that great.


sounds remarkably like another houston player that we waited and waited on to make better decisions in the passing game.

How did that work out again? Oh yeah, lets just ask the Magic.

[Mr. Clutch]

David Carr can be a very accurate passer when given time. However, his field vision and decision making may never be that great.

I don't see any problem with his field vision. He seems to throw to all receivers and make the correct reads. His only real problem is being able to have that great "pocket presence" and know when to stay in, scramble, or just get rid of it.

[ima_drummer2k]

Steve Young sucked when he was with Tampa Bay because he had no talent surrounding him...

[mogrod]

Anybody see the argument between Gary Walker and David Carr at the end of the game. Finally someone stands up Carr.

The announcers on CBS said they were both yelling at Bradford. But they could have been wrong.

[v3.0]

Seth Wand needs to get cut NOW...

[Uprising]

Anybody see the argument between Gary Walker and David Carr at the end of the game. Finally someone stands up Carr.

Ummm.....I believe they said that Carr and Walker were tearing into Bradford. I could be wrong though.


Carr looked good out there today, now that he has AJ back. He didn't look great, but was good and overall efficient.

Too bad we don't ever try to go deep. I wish we would everynow and then in the game, rather than all those short passes.

The Jags did it for the 2nd time today (other time wasn't successful) and caught our D napping after we just scored our TD. Was a 39 yard pass.

[Creepy Crawl]

Steve Young sucked when he was with Tampa Bay because he had no talent surrounding him...
Very good point .

Carr looked alright today . He showed flashes of what he could be only if they had a somewhat descent O-Line in front of him . I still havent given up on the guy . He does take the sack a bit too often , he needs to learn how to throw the ball away . I would hate for him to leave and go somewhere like Green Bay or the Jets and flourish .

[JamesC]

Carr looked a little better today, but like its been said the offensive line is a joke. Now if we could just Andre Johnson and Jerome Mathis on the field together...

[gucci888]

Carr has shown glimpses of a star quarterback, but way too inconsistent.

[Luckyazn]

Trade Carr to Baltimore they need a QB

[MustangPride73]

Trade Carr to Baltimore they need a QB

and the Houston would too ;)

[SamFisher]

Seth Wand needs to get cut NOW...

So I guess people were right a few years ago when he was christened as a "sleeper"....?

[Jared Novak]

So I guess people were right a few years ago when he was christened as a "sleeper"....?

I thought that was the term used to say "reach" in a nice way. :)

[No Worries]

Corey Bradford should be cut on Monday.
Saturday would have been a better cut day for the Texans. Bradford Hands-of-Stone should at least give the Texans back his paycheck for Sunday.

[RocketMan Tex]

The Texans should trade their offensive line to Texas A&M for a bushel of corn on the cob.

Then, we could lay the corncobs where the offensive line sets on each play during a game.

Defensive lineman and linebackers slipping on corncobs would protect David Carr better than this incredibly offensive offensive line.

[ima_drummer2k]

Trade Carr to Baltimore they need a QB
Yeah, then let's draft Leinart, put him behind this offensive line, let him throw to these weak receivers, let him play for the least imaginative coaching staff in the league, and then 3 years later declare him a "bust" and trade him.

[Svpernaut]

Yeah, then let's draft Leinart, put him behind this offensive line, let him throw to these weak receivers, let him play for the least imaginative coaching staff in the league, and then 3 years later declare him a "bust" and trade him.

lol... good point. no quarterback is going to be successful with this scheme, this offensive line and this recieving core. You may be able to sneak by with any combination of two of those problems, but all three of those combined are a ticket to a top 3 pick.

[leroy420]

i'm a carr fan...but i'm not sure what you saw today that makes you so excited. he held the ball too long on at least 2 of the sacks. he made poor throws to open receivers. he threw into double coverage at the end of the game when his stud receiver was wide open on a crossing pattern that would have gotten us a first down.

i like david carr. i don't think he's the problem. but i also don't think today bolsters his cause any.

To be fair, I saw Brett Favre do a lot of that yesterday, too. On 4th & 4, he had an opening to run for the 1st down and decided to throw it to the end zone in double coverage. In other words, even the best of them can be boneheaded at times.

It was a good game for Carr. Bradford should have never been re-signed. I was much more comfortable with Kendrick Starling or Sloan Thomas. It was certainly nice to have the old AJ back. I think a healthy AJ and Mathis could be our duo with Gaffney as the slot.

[MadMax]

To be fair, I saw Brett Favre do a lot of that yesterday, too. On 4th & 4, he had an opening to run for the 1st down and decided to throw it to the end zone in double coverage. In other words, even the best of them can be boneheaded at times.

It was a good game for Carr. Bradford should have never been re-signed. I was much more comfortable with Kendrick Starling or Sloan Thomas. It was certainly nice to have the old AJ back. I think a healthy AJ and Mathis could be our duo with Gaffney as the slot.

I hear ya.

More than ever I believe this team needs to draft the guy with the word "Brick" in his name to play LT and put together some other help up front, without freaking out and ditching Carr.

[gunn]

I hear ya.

More than ever I believe this team needs to draft the guy with the word "Brick" in his name to play LT and put together some other help up front, without freaking out and ditching Carr.


This draft seems to be rich in offensive line talent and tackles in particular. I would like to see the Texans try and make a move for a tackle later in round one or early in the second "after" drafting Reggie Bush. This guy is just too good to pass on.

[MadMax]

This draft seems to be rich in offensive line talent and tackles in particular. I would like to see the Texans try and make a move for a tackle later in round one or early in the second "after" drafting Reggie Bush. This guy is just too good to pass on.

i've heard that. you may be right. i don't know, but i've heard commentators say that Brick is far and away the best offensive lineman in the country...and that everyone after that is a notch down.

[The Real Shady]

i've heard that. you may be right. i don't know, but i've heard commentators say that Brick is far and away the best offensive lineman in the country...and that everyone after that is a notch down.

There is another guy that could overtake D'Brick as the top LT taken if he decides to come out. His name is Joe Thomas out of Wisconsin. Many scouts have been gushing over this guy.

All along I thought that the Texans should trade down and pick up the best LT available, but all of this talk about how Bush is the best breakaway RB to come out since Barry Sanders has me rethinking the situation. How can the Texans risk passing up on someone who can change the game like that?

Or he may just turn out to be the next Eric Metcalf.

[MadMax]

There is another guy that could overtake D'Brick as the top LT taken if he decides to come out. His name is Joe Thomas out of Wisconsin. Many scouts have been gushing over this guy.

All along I thought that the Texans should trade down and pick up the best LT available, but all of this talk about how Bush is the best breakaway RB to come out since Barry Sanders has me rethinking the situation. How can the Texans risk passing up on someone who can change the game like that?

Or he may just turn out to be the next Eric Metcalf.

he's a little bigger than metcalf was, right??? the concern with bush, as i understand it, is that he may be undersized to be a full-time RB in the NFL...right????

[wesnesked]

i've heard that. you may be right. i don't know, but i've heard commentators say that Brick is far and away the best offensive lineman in the country...and that everyone after that is a notch down.

I'm pretty sure d'brickashaw has been hurt for a couple of games this season, and I've heard that Winston from Miami and a guy from UT have played a better OL this season.

[The Real Shady]

he's a little bigger than metcalf was, right??? the concern with bush, as i understand it, is that he may be undersized to be a full-time RB in the NFL...right????

He's listed at 6'0 200 by USC, but many people think he's more like 5'10 190. I don't see any reason why he can't put on a few more lbs and become an everydown back.

I don't think that you would use him in a conventional offense like the Texans currently run. The ideal way to use him would be how the Rams used Marshall Faulk in his prime. Keep him in the backfield most of the time, but also put him in motion moving him out to WR for some plays.

[swilkins]

Carr is not the problem and anyone that thinks about replacing him before taking care of what really needs to happen is wrong.

I've even thought to myself how great it would be to draft Vince Young. I wouldn't do that to VY though and I'm sick of Carr getting knocked. Sure he holds on to the ball too long sometimes. Sure half the sacks could have been avoided if he would scramble and throw out of bounds. Then everyone would get on his case for not completing passes.

This team needs a left and right tackle and Casserley needs to go. I'm not a Capers fan, but I truly believe that Casserley has set this team up to fail. In 4 seasons we have not acquired a true left tackle. That's pathetic. McKinney is definately a better left guard than center, but he's still not earning his paycheck IMO.

I hope Bob McNair makes the right choice and doesn't wait till the end of the year. We need to start scouting now. We need real tackles.

We need a real damn GM.

[JayZ750]

Carr looked okay yesterday, but you have to continually question why he is incapable of throwing a ball away?

Why did Gary Walker seem to play a lot better yesterday? Just because he used to play for Jacksonville? Dude needs to brng it everygame. I guess he played decently against Cleveland, too?

Jonathan Wells played pretty well in DD absence. I'm not convinced DD is the star back that many think he is just because he is the only one generally who can do anything offensively.

[Groogrux]

Jonathan Wells played pretty well in DD absence. I'm not convinced DD is the star back that many think he is just because he is the only one generally who can do anything offensively.

I don't think too many people believe he's a star back, necessarily. It just makes zero sense to draft someone with your first pick that would replace the one position that is getting it done consistently.

[gunn]

I don't think too many people believe he's a star back, necessarily. It just makes zero sense to draft someone with your first pick that would replace the one position that is getting it done consistently.

It's not about that. It's about getting a game breaker on the field. Davis is a good player, but he is not being confused for the game breaker that Bush is.

[Groogrux]

It's not about that. It's about getting a game breaker on the field. Davis is a good player, but he is not being confused for the game breaker that Bush is.

How is he going to be a gamebreaker on this team and with this line, especially when there's no guarnatee that he will be a gamebreaker in the NFL? If it was any other season, I'd agree that you should take him first, but this is going to be our 5th draft...we have to start drafting on need.

[ima_drummer2k]

It's not about that. It's about getting a game breaker on the field. Davis is a good player, but he is not being confused for the game breaker that Bush is.
There's no guarantee that Bush will be a game breaker. The examples of great college RB's who do nothing in the NFL are too numerous to list.

I say we trade down and draft O-lineman. Maybe 2 with first round picks if possible. This draft is supposed to be loaded with O-linemen. This is the year to start building the O-line. Better late than never.

[RocketJedi]

If you could gurantee me right now that Reggie Bush is the second coming of Ladanian Tomlinson, then sure take him. However there are no gurantees in the draft, so you must go with history. History tells is that franchise left tackles are almost always found at the top of the 1st round, they do not come around that often and rarely hit the open market. The fact is that a quality left tackle is far more valuable than a back that possesses game breaking potential. However we must be totally convinced that D'Brickashaw Ferguson fits that mold, as I said no gurantees.

[JayZ750]

It just hasn't been too clear to me that DD is THAT much better than even Wells. Obviously, in a full year as the feature back DD did better than Wells did in his year in that role. But that was year 1, behing the worst OL in history as a rookie back with a rookie QB and no other weapons. Domanick, on the other hand, had the benefit of some improvement in the line, in Carr's game and in receivers. He has been good, though, I'd say, but not all that great, and has had some fumbling problems at inopportune times.

I'm not saying they should replace Davis with Wells. I'm just curious as to what kind of value DD would have in the market (mid 1st rounder or mid 3rd rounder).

[swilkins]

I say we trade down and draft O-lineman. Maybe 2 with first round picks if possible. This draft is supposed to be loaded with O-linemen. This is the year to start building the O-line. Better late than never.

This is the only acceptable thing to do.

[jopatmc]

It just hasn't been too clear to me that DD is THAT much better than even Wells. Obviously, in a full year as the feature back DD did better than Wells did in his year in that role. But that was year 1, behing the worst OL in history as a rookie back with a rookie QB and no other weapons. Domanick, on the other hand, had the benefit of some improvement in the line, in Carr's game and in receivers. He has been good, though, I'd say, but not all that great, and has had some fumbling problems at inopportune times.

I'm not saying they should replace Davis with Wells. I'm just curious as to what kind of value DD would have in the market (mid 1st rounder or mid 3rd rounder).

If we could pull a mid first rounder for DD, we'd have to do that deal in a heartbeat. Then if we get the #1 pick, trade it down for like the #4 or #5 pick and a later first round pick. Then we get a couple starting tackles plus another good pick in the first round to add another weapon. The two tackles are the key though. We gotta get 2 starting tackles out of this draft. The running back position can be shored up through the 2nd and 5th rounds and through free agency.

I really can't see anybody giving us a mid first rounder for DD though. A third rounder....possibly.

If we get the #1 pick, we've got to trade down with it ala San Diego with the Vick-LT,Brees trade. Brees was essentially a first rounder, the first pick of the second round.

[gunn]

History tells is that franchise left tackles are almost always found at the top of the 1st round, they do not come around that often and rarely hit the open market. The fact is that a quality left tackle is far more valuable than a back that possesses game breaking potential. However we must be totally convinced that D'Brickashaw Ferguson fits that mold, as I said no gurantees.

How many "franchise left tackles" have the Patriots taken in the Draft while having won the Super Bowl 3 of the last 4 years? The Eagles? The Colts? Leonard Davis seems to really be anchoring that hearalded Cardinals line. The only "franchise left tackles" of recent memory taken at the top of the draft that I can think of are Pace, Ogden and Jones; and there are alot more teams with good offensive lines than the Rams, Ravens and Seahawks. This draft will be littered with solid offensive tackles and if the Texans are fortunate enough to draft Bush at the top, then a trade could be made to move up into the latter part of round one to snag a solid tackle.

[Ric]

How is he going to be a gamebreaker on this team and with this line, especially when there's no guarnatee that he will be a gamebreaker in the NFL? If it was any other season, I'd agree that you should take him first, but this is going to be our 5th draft...we have to start drafting on need.
they need everything.

DD plays & runs hard; but he doesn't strike fear into the opponents. he's able to grind up yardage between the 20's because teams know that, ultimately, he can be contained. notice how, once they move into the red zone, DD is instantly neutralized?

sanders - and i'm not comparing bush to sanders - but sanders always had subpar OLs in DET. payton did as well in CHI. hell, everyone in creation knew when and pretty much where earl campbell was going to carry the football. the key is that those players couldn't be stopped. they had an extra gear, an extra move, insane field vision, etc. they found holes, created holes, hit their marks, made people miss...

like i said, DD plays and runs hard. but bush may very well be one of those elite backs who breaks games open, makes plays on his own, turns garbage into diamonds.

drafting for need on a team with needs everywhere but WR and CB (and they only have one of each) is a big mistake. this team is too far away to be drafting for need.

long way of saying i'd take bush in a heartbeat if you're convinced he's a gamebreaker.

[Groogrux]

I'd agree with you if you can ever be convinced that someone's a gamebreaker. A lot of people thought that Peter Warrick and Desmond Howard were going to be gamebreakers too. Barry Sanders may have played behind a crappy OL, but he also never won anything. Comparing Bush to either of those guys is way too premature, IMO.

I think our OL's bad enough to where to are forced to take one with your first pick.

[Nick]

On any given year, an amazing college left tackle IS the best player in the draft. That is the ONLY proven high pick position in the history of the NFL that teams can actually BUILD a franchise on.

I've seen three teams in just the last 10 years that have won consistently with multiple QB's, multiple WR's, and even multiple coaches... but the ONE constant in all those equations was a solid O-line (or just one stud tackle).

Passing on Reggie Bush would not be the biggest mistake ever, especially if this team is in position to get a franchise LT. You look around the league, and there's a new stud fantasy WR, or RB every year... but you rarely see a LT all of a sudden "become" an amazing player... you're either born with it, or you're not.

Orlando Pace is not going to fall into the Texans lap... neither is Tony Boselli, Jonathan Ogden, or even Bruce Matthews. They're going to have to draft there eventually... no matter who comes out any given year at the skillz positions... because it simply is not going to get better by having retreads like Wand, Wade, Pitts, McKinney, and Riley just shuffle in and out... hoping something works.

[gunn]

I think our OL's bad enough to where to are forced to take one with your first pick.

I could not disagree more with that statement. How many good offensive lines are out there without a "franchise" left tackle? "Franchise" meaning, top 5 selected left tackle. Off the top of my head, there's alot.

[Ric]

I'd agree with you if you can ever be convinced that someone's a gamebreaker.

I think our OL's bad enough to where to are forced to take one with your first pick.
why are you convinced the LT is the next jonathan ogden? he could be the next tony mandarich.

and what i mean is: the draft as a whole is a crapshoot. you will NEVER know. EVER. tom brady was, what, a 5th round pick? joe montana went in the third round! personally, i put my stock into what i see. GMs and coaches, IMO, get too cute; their egos get too big and they try to outthink and outsmart one another and good god, they've turned combine numbers into the gospel.

maybe bush is a great college back and nothing more. but all i can tell you is the guy makes big plays with an alarming consistency and i'd rather fail taking a chance on him than some other guy who didn't produce in college at the same level as bush but had a great 40-time, or whatever. i feel the same way about lienart, btw. they can tell me all they want about his lack of strength, mobility - whatever. all i know is when USC has needed him to come through, he's done it each and every time on the biggest stage imaginable.

[Groogrux]

I could not disagree more with that statement. How many good offensive lines are out there without a "franchise" left tackle? "Franchise" meaning, top 5 selected left tackle. Off the top of my head, there's alot.

How many horrendous offensive lines are there on teams that will make the playoffs this year? Off my head, there's not a lot. The teams that have taken a LT in the top 5 aren't horrible because of the OL. We have the talent at the skill positions (is TE a skill position?) to be a good team. If we upgrade our OL, add a TE and 2nd WR, this is a playoff contending offense.

[Ric]

If we upgrade our OL, add a TE and 2nd WR, this is a playoff contending team.
can the coaches, revamp the defense.... regardless, i disagree. i'm not even completely sold on AJ, though i think he's merely suffering from a lack of coaching. but it bothers me that he's so easily neutralized. DD will not be the team's starting RB when they finally hit the playoffs and the jury is still deliberating on carr.

i think this team is light years away. reaching for a LT will set it back further.

btw, to piggyback on my last post - if the LT in question is reggie bush good.... then yes, i'd go for the LT. but if he's merely the best LT - not the best player - and you pass on bush to get the LT, that, imo, is the mistake.

but yes, all thing being equal, you take the LT... though i'd still hesitate to pass on bush. in fact, i live by that motto. have a bumper sticker.....

[Groogrux]

I want to go ahead and point out that I won't be too terribly disappointed if we take Bush (upon further reflection).

[gunn]

If we upgrade our OL, add a TE and 2nd WR, this is a playoff contending offense.


I agree. I'm not advocating ignoring the offesive line. I feel that with the deep talent at OT in this years draft, we could draft Bush at the top and move back into the latter part of the first or possibly stand still in the second to get a tackle.

[gunn]

I want to go ahead and point out that I won't be too terribly disappointed if we take Bush (upon further reflection).

Food for though:


Think about Reggie Bush and DD in the backfield at the same time and motioning Reggie into the slot with Johnson and Mathis wide. Scary.

[Jared Novak]

I agree. I'm not advocating ignoring the offesive line. I feel that with the deep talent at OT in this years draft, we could draft Bush at the top and move back into the latter part of the first or possibly stand still in the second to get a tackle.

This is the kind of thinking that has Carr scrapng himself off the field every week. LT is one of the hardest positions to fill. It is very difficult if not impossible to obtain via free agency and most franchise LT's are gone by he top ten picks.

Jonathan Wells who was a fourth round pick looked great out there as did Mathis as the line was great in run blocking yesterday. I understand the infatuation with the "gamechanger" that Reggie Bush is and I'm not bickering at you in particular gunn, but the Texans need to have that franchise LT in there. IMO, you have that LT in there after Hodgdon goes down and there is no shuffling of the line and there is no Seth Wand getting beat on that play.

[Groogrux]

Think about Reggie Bush and DD in the backfield at the same time and motioning Reggie into the slot with Johnson and Mathis wide. Scary.

OK, thanks! :D

[gunn]

This is the kind of thinking that has Carr scrapng himself off the field every week. LT is one of the hardest positions to fill. It is very difficult if not impossible to obtain via free agency and most franchise LT's are gone by he top ten picks.

You don't need a first overall selection tackle to keep your quarterback right side up. I can guarantee you that the Texans could move back into the first and grab a tackle that would be a nice player in this year's draft. And having the top selection in the second and an extra third rounder would go along way towards obtaining that.

[Jared Novak]

You don't need a first overall selection tackle to keep your quarterback right side up. I can guarantee you that the Texans could move back into the first and grab a tackle that would be a nice player in this year's draft. And having the top selection in the second and an extra third rounder would go along way towards obtaining that.

With so many needs, why are you trading valuable second and third round picks for one player? I vehemently disagreed with the move that Casserly made for Babin and would srongly disagree with another move like that.

The Texans need to keep all the extra picks in the second and third rounds because players who should have gone in the first usually slide into the second. With their current record the Texans would have a very high second rounder which is almost as good as a late first.

The most pressing need for the Texans is LT. Davis is not Barry Sanders, but neither is Reggie Bush. Bush is amazing, but so was Ki-Jana Carter at Penn State and where is he at now?

The Texans are no longer an expansion team, they need to draft for need not BPA. With a top two pick, the Texans could probably trade down in the top five and still secure a LT and have an extra first, second or third round pick. To trade away those picks (2nd and 3rd rounders) would be a mistake. You can find plenty of RB's later in the draft (Clinton Portis was a second rounder). But after five years of drafting and not making the OL your top priority the team has suffered and your offense has sputtered. Casserly's initial intention was to build a great OL with Boselli and Young as his bookend tackles and in didn't work out. Maybe its time to go back to that plan.

[gunn]

With so many needs, why are you trading valuable second and third round picks for one player? I vehemently disagreed with the move that Casserly made for Babin and would srongly disagree with another move like that.

The Texans need to keep all the extra picks in the second and third rounds because players who should have gone in the first usually slide into the second. With their current record the Texans would have a very high second rounder which is almost as good as a late first.

The most pressing need for the Texans is LT. Davis is not Barry Sanders, but neither is Reggie Bush. Bush is amazing, but so was Ki-Jana Carter at Penn State and where is he at now?

The Texans are no longer an expansion team, they need to draft for need not BPA. With a top two pick, the Texans could probably trade down in the top five and still secure a LT and have an extra first, second or third round pick. To trade away those picks (2nd and 3rd rounders) would be a mistake. You can find plenty of RB's later in the draft (Clinton Portis was a second rounder). But after five years of drafting and not making the OL your top priority the team has suffered and your offense has sputtered. Casserly's initial intention was to build a great OL with Boselli and Young as his bookend tackles and in didn't work out. Maybe its time to go back to that plan.


If there is a pass blocking LT still around with the top pick in the second then I'm all for using that pick on him. Trueblood may make a nice pick there. You don't pass on the concensus "best player in the country" to fill a hole on a team with so many needs. I'll take the "potential" to be dynamic over the "potential" to be good every day. You can draft a tackle first overall and hope to be good in a couple of years, or you can take Bush and find a pass blocking tackle later in the first or top second and hope to be unbelievable in a couple of years. I'll take the latter.

[Jared Novak]

If there is a pass blocking LT still around with the top pick in the second then I'm all for using that pick on him. Trueblood may make a nice pick there. You don't pass on the concensus "best player in the country" to fill a hole on a team with so many needs. I'll take the "potential" to be dynamic over the "potential" to be good every day. You can draft a tackle first overall and hope to be good in a couple of years, or you can take Bush and find a pass blocking tackle later in the first or top second and hope to be unbelievable in a couple of years. I'll take the latter.

So if hypothetically the Texans take Bush this year and find themselves in this same quandry as next year and have the chance to take a franchise LT or Vince Young, who should they take? If VY is the consensus "best player in the country" then we should drop Carr and take VY instead because of his potential.

I would rather take the franchise LT and look for another RB in the draft because LT are hard to come by and RB's come a dime a dozen. As impressive as Bush is, he probably wouldn't fare much beer than Davis behind he Texans' OL.

[The Real Shady]

I would rather take the franchise LT and look for another RB in the draft because LT are hard to come by and RB's come a dime a dozen. As impressive as Bush is, he probably wouldn't fare much beer than Davis behind he Texans' OL.

There will be a glut of OTs going off the board in the late 1st early 2nd round area because the position is so deep this year. We should be able to find a top notch RT in that spot with our 2nd round pick. As far as the LT position goes, I'm comfortable with Pitts playing LT. He plays that position much better than guard IMO.

If Bush is there you should take him if the scouts think he is something speicial. Plus, he'll help sell tickets, and Bob McNair will like that. :)

[gunn]

So if hypothetically the Texans take Bush this year and find themselves in this same quandry as next year and have the chance to take a franchise LT or Vince Young, who should they take? If VY is the consensus "best player in the country" then we should drop Carr and take VY instead because of his potential.

I would rather take the franchise LT and look for another RB in the draft because LT are hard to come by and RB's come a dime a dozen. As impressive as Bush is, he probably wouldn't fare much beer than Davis behind he Texans' OL.

That's purely hypothetical, I'll give you that. But I'll follow that up by saying that if the Texans draft Bush and use our second selection on a pass blocking tackle, we won't have that situation next year. The Texans have been fairly solid run blocking this year, and Reggie Bush can do things on a football field that DD can only dream about. Those 25-30 yard runs by Davis, could be 45-50 yard TD runs by Bush. Bush has another gear that 98% of the players in the NFL don't have.

[Jared Novak]

That's purely hypothetical, I'll give you that. But I'll follow that up by saying that if the Texans draft Bush and use our second selection on a pass blocking tackle, we won't have that situation next year. The Texans have been fairly solid run blocking this year, and Reggie Bush can do things on a football field that DD can only dream about. Those 25-30 yard runs by Davis, could be 45-50 yard TD runs by Bush. Bush has another gear that 98% of the players in the NFL don't have.

I see your point, but I will stick by my opinion and still say that the Texans should draft a LT with the high pick and concentrate on getting a TE, LB, SS, and WR with their later picks than to pick up a player at a position that is already filled.

The way I see we agree to disagree, lets just hope they make the right choices and picks that will help turn this team around.

[Nick]

That's purely hypothetical, I'll give you that. But I'll follow that up by saying that if the Texans draft Bush and use our second selection on a pass blocking tackle, we won't have that situation next year. The Texans have been fairly solid run blocking this year, and Reggie Bush can do things on a football field that DD can only dream about. Those 25-30 yard runs by Davis, could be 45-50 yard TD runs by Bush. Bush has another gear that 98% of the players in the NFL don't have.

But your scenario is purely hypothetical too.

Who says that a "pass blocking tackle" picked late in the first round or second round will have anywhere near the capabilities of the one passed up in the top of the 1st round. For all we know, he could be WORSE than Seth Wand... and with our scouting, I wouldn't trust them trying to make that late pick for such an important position.

Reggie Bush is great... hands down... but we won't be running it on every play, and I still don't see nearly enough progress made with this line to think that it can be saved by anyone BUT a franchise-type LT.

Now, of course, if the LT at the top doesn't blow away the competition, then I'd agree with your sentiments... but if they project him to be good enough to be a top-3 pick, you take him.

A good o-line is the foundation, the blood, the guts... you can't be a good team without one. The problem should have been addressed before the expansion draft, or during the second year draft... and now they're paying the consequences.

[jopatmc]

Who in the world could watch this team and claim that Pitts is good out there at left tackle? What have you been eating? That's a total joke. I think I could get around end on him. He can't stop anybody on the pass rush. Pitts is a guard.........period, exclamation point.

Next, how many top calibar playoff teams have a LT or RT for a left handed QB that was not drafted in the top half of the first round? Conversely, how many top calibar playoff teams have running backs that were drafted after the first round? Also, how long is the career of an average starting tailback in the NFL? How long is the career of an average starting left tackle in the NFL? When you compare the running back, quarterback, and left tackle positions, you will see that there are way more top performers at the running back and quarterback postions that were lower than first round picks, and there are way fewer top performing left tackles that were lower than a first round pick.

Get real folks. There's no question. We've gotta take a pass on the glitz and glitter of players like Bush, Lienhart, and Vince Young and we gotta get that franchise left tackle that can keep Carr upright for longer than .9 seconds.

Look at the starting running backs, quarterbacks, and left tackles of the last 20 years of Super Bowl teams and compare how many running backs were first rounders, how many quarterbacks were first rounders, and how many blind side tackles were first rounders. The results will astound you.

We've gotta have a top notch left tackle before we are gonna get anywhere.

[SamFisher]

why are you convinced the LT is the next jonathan ogden? he could be the next tony mandarich.



That's the same school of thought that the texans have applied for every year of their existence, apparently, and it isn't helping them.
If you're building a team from nothing, it just makes SO MUCH sense to start with the O-line first, given that they have such longevity (which the texans actually did with boselli, but then had no plan B, which was foolish, and inexcusable as they still don't have one). I remember when the OIlers drafted Munchak, Steinkuhler, Matthews and basically solidified their line for a decade or more, and augmented it with Brad Hopkins a few years down the road (and Hopkins is STILL better than any OL who has played a down for the texans even though he's been in the leagure forever). Obviously the free agency rules have changed since then - but again, all players at all positions become FA's.

[The Real Shady]

Who in the world could watch this team and claim that Pitts is good out there at left tackle? What have you been eating? That's a total joke. I think I could get around end on him. He can't stop anybody on the pass rush. Pitts is a guard.........period, exclamation point.



I think a sane person could tell that Pitts plays better at LT than OG. Look how much better the line looks when he is out there. The sacks go down, and Carr has more time to throw. Not a lot of time, but more than when Riley is out there. Did you notice how the line colapsed when the Texans moved Wand out to LT and moved Pitts back into Guard?

[Ric]

I remember when the OIlers drafted Munchak, Steinkuhler, Matthews and basically solidified their line for a decade or more
others have made this point, and i bring up the same counter, which is that munchak was taken in 1982, mathews 1983, steinkuler 1984. the oilers did not have a winning record until 1987 and that was only because our replacement team won two games the regulars would have surely lost (at denver and at cleveland).

so it took five horrendous seasons of losing (they had the 3rd overall pick in the '87 draft) before they were winners. it is a looooong process. now, obviously, we have the benefit of hindsight, but would mcnair have been content with a five-year plan? plus, building along the OL at the top of the draft takes you out of contention to draft the best skill players in the country, and while i don't oppose drafting OL high in the draft, it is one of the few units on the field that functions as a team, and therefore, can be built with less than great talent if the talent can a) be coachable; b) gel together and compliment one another. denver is exhibit A. scheme is just as vital to an OL and talent.

but you can't manufacture gamebreakers. you can't draft an AJ in the fifth round. you look at the top 5 QBs, RB and WRs right now - in terms of numbers - and of those 15 guys, 2 - TWO - weren't first round picks. the rest were.

[SamFisher]

others have made this point, and i bring up the same counter, which is that munchak was taken in 1982, mathews 1983, steinkuler 1984. the oilers did not have a winning record until 1987 and that was only because our replacement team won two games the regulars would have surely lost (at denver and at cleveland).

so it took five horrendous seasons of losing (they had the 3rd overall pick in the '87 draft) before they were winners. it is a looooong process. now, obviously, we have the benefit of hindsight, but would mcnair have been content with a five-year plan? plus, building along the OL at the top of the draft takes you out of contention to draft the best skill players in the country, and

Yeah, but IIRC the replacement team also lost a game (cincinatti?) that the Oilers would have been favored in, as well as the missed "game" - so strike or no, that team would have been around 8-8 plus or minus a game, and would have only gotten better in subsequent years, like they did. (I believe they went from 5-11 to 9-6 from 86-87 and then were reliably a 9-12 win team until 1994.

But anyway, yeah, they sucked at first, because they were blocking for Larry Moriarty and we were throwing to Tim Smith, and I don't even want to mention the defense, but 10 years later, Munchak and Matthews were still there, and the Oilers were still a super bowl contender year in and year out, as they filled in shorter shelf life players around them. Those guys blocked for at least 4 different 1000 yard rushers over the course of their career (Rozier, White, Brown, and George)


....while i don't oppose drafting OL high in the draft, it is one of the few units on the field that functions as a team, and therefore, can be built with less than great talent if the talent can a) be coachable; b) gel together and compliment one another. denver is exhibit A. scheme is just as vital to an OL and talent.
And when you have neither....what then? Maybe we dont' need 5 no. 1 draft picks, However, given how untalented they are as a group, ONE would be nice. Hell even Denver has 1. We have a bunch of cast-offs and nobodies. Casserly's own philosophy was to build the line first as well. Which he did in his first draft and the expansion draft, even though the players he tried to build with for the most part busted fairly quickly. Then he abandoned it and is sort of making it up as he goes along.


but you can't manufacture gamebreakers. you can't draft an AJ in the fifth round. you look at the top 5 QBs, RB and WRs right now - in terms of numbers - and of those 15 guys, 2 - TWO - weren't first round picks. the rest were.

No, but you can pick him up or somebody like him a few years later and not subject him to a horrifc OL that is not developing or progressing except in the wrong direction...maybe he will lead the Texans to the playoffs one day, if he chooses to re-up with Houston after a few more years of what look to be hardcore losing, or if they have to make him an (unhappy) franchise player to keep him.

ALso, your top 5 example goes both ways - New England had one top 5 skill pos. player last year, not highly drafted, and they dominated the league.

The thing is that it is just SO obvious that this has been a problem area since day 1, and there has been next to nothing done about it, "Seth Wand is a great prospect!" "the new scheme will work out!" "We pick too high to get an OL, they're not that deep this year". Those excuses looked dubious then and even worse now.