[CHRON] At 7-6, Yao having trouble being noticed

[MrRolo]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/rssstory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/3429594

Rockets center not getting enough passes at low post
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Maybe he could stand on his toes or raise his hand and say "ooh, ooh" like a student trying to get the teacher to call on him.

But Yao Ming is pretty tall standing flat-footed. And he has been with the Rockets longer than anyone. Surely by now his teammates have noticed him. He is the only 7-6, 310-pound guy around. He is the tree that stands out in the forest.

"Sometimes it's hard to believe a guy 7-6 can get lost," Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "But he does for us at times."

Getting the ball in the low post has become more complicated than it was for Yao's predecessors. Yao has spent his career with rules that let teams surround low-post players with defenses that were illegal prior to the most recent rule changes.

The art of passing to the low post always has been underappreciated. But it is a skill that has been lacking for the Rockets.

"Looking for a 7-6 guy, I'd just like to see them try," Van Gundy said. "I think if you're cognizant at all, look at the basket, see a massive presence that shoots 55 percent, throw him the ball if you see his numbers."

There is an assumption that if the Rockets looked for Yao more often, he might not be too difficult to find.

The Rockets open the season Wednesday against the Sacramento Kings, against whom Yao averaged
23 points on 56-percent shooting last season. They then play the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets, who just traded their center, Jamal Magloire, and the Orlando Magic, whose starting center, Kelvin Cato, is hurt.

However, in their last preseason tuneup, with Tracy McGrady out, Yao took only nine shots against the Hornets.

"Nine shots in 30 minutes without McGrady is not enough," Van Gundy said. "It goes back to playing with a big lead and guys just jacking up jumpers — disappointing."

Skilled passers abound
It also might be frustrating, because the Rockets have surrounded Yao with good passers. The Rockets began last season with a team that Van Gundy said "could have been the worst passing team to ever grace the floor in the NBA, other than McGrady." But they since have added Jon Barry, David Wesley and Derek Anderson, whom Van Gundy considers skilled at distributing the ball.

"There are a lot of guys that cannot feed the post," Barry said. "It surprises me. That's the basic idea of the way we want to play: inside-out.

"Timing is key. The timing aspect is waiting for him to get to that position, anticipating whether he's ever going to get there because you never want to hold the ball. Getting the proper angle is very key. If you're on the floor and the guy is three-quartering him on the side you're on, you want to dribble and get an angle and throw it in. Some guys can't do it."

The Rockets also have emphasized getting Yao the ball without forcing him to lunge for it. Where Hakeem Olajuwon could dance in and out of low-post position, and Charles Barkley could hold his man off long enough to pick up an anvil, the Rockets have determined that Yao is at his best when he does not lose his leverage while reaching for a pitch that is high and outside.

Balancing act
"Everybody wants to talk about him getting stronger," Van Gundy said. "Yao is very strong. That is not a problem. Balance has been a problem sometimes. Mobility has been a problem. Our passing in to him has been a problem.

"Yao sometimes catches in great position, but because he is off-balance, sometimes he has to bounce it, which gives guards time to get back down, double and knock it away."

With few exceptions, if opponents prepare for anything, it is defending Yao. But Rockets players say they should be able to handle the pressure and improve their timing to foil defensive help and get Yao the ball.

"If I miss him, it's not him, it's my fault," Rafer Alston said. "He does have guys draped all over him. We have to wait for him to get the space and position he wants. But then, I should be able to pinpoint the pass."

For the Rockets, the bigger issue has been remembering that Yao is there. Although given that defenses tend to interfere, there is more to the problem than that.

"You have to put it where he can catch it, where the defense can't get it," Wesley said. "You want to throw a pass not only where he can catch it, but where he can do something with it.

"But you really just want to be aware of the post."

jonathan.feigen@chron.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ROCKETS SUMMARY

Painful subject
Rockets forward Tracy McGrady was less upbeat about his battle with tendinitis after Monday's practice than he was on Sunday. McGrady said he still expects to be ready to play Wednesday against the Sacramento Kings but is worried about lingering issues.

"The four days that I had off really calmed it down a little bit," McGrady said. "There's still some pain in there. I don't know how I'm going to feel on Wednesday, but right now I'm able to go out and move. But there's still pain in there that's bothering me.

"That (the day-to-day) grind really has me concerned because once Wednesday comes there's really not time to take some days off."

McGrady has had tendinitis in the past but said he never has begun a season with knee problems and that "it's never been this bad."

McGrady played in five preseason games, averaging 15 points on 42.6-percent shooting.

"It's frustrating. It really is," McGrady said. "The work I put in the offseason to try to come back better and stronger and to try to make this team get off to a great start ... for this to happen is real frustrating."

Norris on inactive list
The Rockets decided on their roster for Wednesday's opener, placing guard Moochie Norris, injured guard Bob Sura and forward Dion Glover on the inactive list.

Norris played in four preseason games, averaging 3.8 points on 50-percent shooting and 2.3 assists.

The inactive list may be changed up to one hour before each game this season, the first season without an injured list.

JONATHAN FEIGEN

[daRox]

Now we all know what people kept whining about during the Francis era. :D Those stupid YOFs ;)

[arkoe]

I'm too the point where I'm wondering if the whole "Yao doesn't get enough touches" thing is overplayed. I used to think not, but I can't honestly believe as many players as we have gone through the last couple of years just absolutely refuse to pass to him.

[LegendZ3]

"If I miss him, it's not him, it's my fault," Rafer Alston said. "He does have guys draped all over him. We have to wait for him to get the space and position he wants. But then, I should be able to pinpoint the pass."


I can't say enough about how much I likes this guy already. I have no idea how anyone can how problem with him. Rafer will have a great season with the Rockets, I can just feel it.

[krnxsnoopy]

I'm too the point where I'm wondering if the whole "Yao doesn't get enough touches" thing is overplayed. I used to think not, but I can't honestly believe as many players as we have gone through the last couple of years just absolutely refuse to pass to him.

coach says it.. his teammates say it.. so i take their word... plus from watching almost every rocket game... i can say yao needs to get atleast 15~20 shots a game... sometimes he gets 10... thats NOT enough

[arkoe]

I would agree, but part of the reason Yao gets less shots is because of his inability to stay on the floor.

[user]

I would agree, but part of the reason Yao gets less shots is because of his inability to stay on the floor.

So after JVG's comment, you are still using the execuse. Yao did not get enough shots with or without foul troubles.

[hotballa]

I would agree, but part of the reason Yao gets less shots is because of his inability to stay on the floor.

you say this after JVG's remarks? cmon man, you sound like one of those RealGM idiots

[rockbox]

We should have picked up Horry when we had the chance. I would pay a couple of million just to teach the other guys the entry pass.

[vwiggin]

Yeah, Chick used to say that Robert Horry is one of the best post-feeders of all time. :)

[rhadamanthus]

Head active. Moochie inactive.

Good.

[MrRolo]

Yeah, Chick used to say that Robert Horry is one of the best post-feeders of all time. :)

you're very lucky to have a significant other that really knows her bball :cool:


I agree that Yao needs more shots and sometimes its amazing that he doesn't get a lot of shots. I believe the prime factor for it is because of TOs trying to pass to him, and once the defense knows the ball is going to Yao it's easy for them to jump out and steal it because Yao lacks the mobility and quickness to shield off the defender. This can be solved with good entry passers/passes though, as the article states. We have our best p2y (Pass to yao) lineup we've ever had so we should really see
Yao's shot attempts increase.

[Tango]

However, in their last preseason tuneup, with Tracy McGrady out, Yao took only nine shots against the Hornets.

"Nine shots in 30 minutes without McGrady is not enough," Van Gundy said. "It goes back to playing with a big lead and guys just jacking up jumpers — disappointing."

This says it all. The Hornets game was really disappointing from this perspective.

[tolne57]

If someone takes a shot, but gets fouled, it doesn't get reflected in the shot count stat does it?

[oschadha]

This says it all. The Hornets game was really disappointing from this perspective.

Exactly, it was clearly evident in the Hornets game. Once we got the big lead, everyone starting jacking up shots playing one on one ball (Anderson, Barry, Wesely). Then in the fish wrap the next day, they all make the same excuses about having to get the ball to Yao more often. It happens time and time again.

[Nautic]

I would agree, but part of the reason Yao gets less shots is because of his inability to stay on the floor.

JVG did not say Yao should be passed the ball when sitting on the bench. What JVG and Jon Barry said was that Yao should get the ball when he is under the post.

[GladiatoRowdy]

If someone takes a shot, but gets fouled, it doesn't get reflected in the shot count stat does it?

Not if they miss.

[noize]

I would agree, but part of the reason Yao gets less shots is because of his inability to stay on the floor.

Yao getting less shot has nothing to do with his inability to stay on the floor. He averages 30min a game last year, which is more then enough to take 12-15 shots in the game.

[declan32001]

Yao getting less shot has nothing to do with his inability to stay on the floor. He averages 30min a game last year, which is more then enough to take 12-15 shots in the game.

Exactly, and we're not going to win a ring until Yao consistently gets that many shots.

[barryxzz]

This is where discipline comes in. Spurs (probably) won't make the same mistake. I recalled last season in one game, TD went for 1/10 or something like that in the 1st half but their teamates still threw him the ball and he recovered in the 2nd half.

Here? If the shooters feel good about their shot they will look for theirs first instead of looking for Yao. What's wrong with that? Well, what if their shot get cold towards the end of the game? Since they were hot earlier, they will try to shoot themself out of the slump. Then before you know it, the lead is blown and they are behind. Then (only then) they would start to throw Yao the ball, but it could be too late then or Yao's shot is gone due to long stretchs of no touch.

The simple FACT is Yao has the highest shooting percentage in Rockets (yes, Tmac included, shocking huh?), so they shouldn't play against the odds. It's not about ego or confidence, it's about efficiency (at least in the long run).

[zhaozhilong]

Exactly, it was clearly evident in the Hornets game. Once we got the big lead, everyone starting jacking up shots playing one on one ball (Anderson, Barry, Wesely). Then in the fish wrap the next day, they all make the same excuses about having to get the ball to Yao more often. It happens time and time again.

Yeap, why does it happen time and time again with our center/post player, but doesn't happen time and time again with other teams' post players? Duncan? Shaq?

Because the post player must also do his part in demanding the ball when his teammates get carried away. Yao doesn't demand the ball. Yao doesn't remind his teammates when they get carried away. He just doesn't get it. It's like he wants to maintain an image of being a mister nice guy. That's why I'm extremely frustrated with Yao.

[daRox]

If someone takes a shot, but gets fouled, it doesn't get reflected in the shot count stat does it?

I think it does, but not very sure

[Blatz]

I think it does, but not very sure

It only counts if the player makes it.

[noize]

Yeap, why does it happen time and time again with our center/post player, but doesn't happen time and time again with other teams' post players? Duncan? Shaq?

Because the post player must also do his part in demanding the ball when his teammates get carried away. Yao doesn't demand the ball. Yao doesn't remind his teammates when they get carried away. He just doesn't get it. It's like he wants to maintain an image of being a mister nice guy. That's why I'm extremely frustrated with Yao.

What the hell are you talking about? This happends to Shaq frequently in Miami, so much so that he publically called out his team mates a couple of times for not giving him the ball. Yao does call for the ball most of the time by raising his arms when he gets position. He's freakin 7 foot 5 tree trunk out there, he doesn't need to shout to gets the guards attention unless your're blind or dazed. The coach and players have already admitted what the problems are and they just needed to find a solution for it. There's nothing more needed to be said. If you have been paying any attention to the pre-season at all, Yao has gotten good position all game with good stats, except for the last game where the guards just jack up shots after shots when they had a 22 point lead as stated in that article. As for Duncan, he sometimes goes for long streches without the ball, more so then you think, but nobody cares since he has such good players to make up for his lack of touches.It seems like most people are satisfied with Yao assertiveness and his improvements through out the pre-season games to get enough praises from the media including Tim Legner and CBS sportsline.

[m_cable]

This is where discipline comes in. Spurs (probably) won't make the same mistake. I recalled last season in one game, TD went for 1/10 or something like that in the 1st half but their teamates still threw him the ball and he recovered in the 2nd half.

Here? If the shooters feel good about their shot they will look for theirs first instead of looking for Yao. What's wrong with that? Well, what if their shot get cold towards the end of the game? Since they were hot earlier, they will try to shoot themself out of the slump. Then before you know it, the lead is blown and they are behind. Then (only then) they would start to throw Yao the ball, but it could be too late then or Yao's shot is gone due to long stretchs of no touch.

The simple FACT is Yao has the highest shooting percentage in Rockets (yes, Tmac included, shocking huh?), so they shouldn't play against the odds. It's not about ego or confidence, it's about efficiency (at least in the long run).


Actually if you pay attention to the Spurs and Shaq's teams, they both get into stretches where the big guys aren't getting the touches that they need. T-Dunc has been known to go flat out invisible for quarters at a time. And there have been a few games where Shaq is dominating in the first half, only to get few touches for the rest of the game. Not getting the big man enough touches happens to a lot of great teams, Yao's touches situation is just a bit more extreme than those guys. It's weird how when the team gets some success, they often go away from what they are doing right in the first place.

[hotballa]

Yeap, why does it happen time and time again with our center/post player, but doesn't happen time and time again with other teams' post players? Duncan? Shaq?

Because the post player must also do his part in demanding the ball when his teammates get carried away. Yao doesn't demand the ball. Yao doesn't remind his teammates when they get carried away. He just doesn't get it. It's like he wants to maintain an image of being a mister nice guy. That's why I'm extremely frustrated with Yao.

dude what games are you watching? Every possession I see him raising his hand for the ball. There is nothing else abig man can do outside of this on the court. It isn't his job to remind them to go down low, thats supposed to be the job of the PG and coach. Do you want Yao to attack the guards?

It isn't like Yao is cowering on the floor hoping for the ball. he's asking and demanding it every time

[hotballa]

JVG did not say Yao should be passed the ball when sitting on the bench. What JVG and Jon Barry said was that Yao should get the ball when he is under the post.

:D :D thank you

[pgabriel]

Its funny, first Francis and Mobley were blamed, now we have a team of unquestionable better passing ability and his teamates still get blamed. Yao has got to learn to hold his position in the paint better. period

[MrRolo]

Only thing about all of this is.. isn't our offense based on "taking the shot if you are open"... if Wesley is wide open due to his man sinking toward Yao to front him to deny the lob then isn't Wesleys job in the offense to shoot?

I can see a problem when players are having an off-shooting night and try to shoot themselves out of it (the only players who are excused for taking bad shots are Yao and Tmac) so if a player isn't wide open then a pass must be made to Yao or Tmac. This is where we need a lot of improvement.

[munco]

Actually if you pay attention to the Spurs and Shaq's teams, they both get into stretches where the big guys aren't getting the touches that they need. T-Dunc has been known to go flat out invisible for quarters at a time. And there have been a few games where Shaq is dominating in the first half, only to get few touches for the rest of the game. Not getting the big man enough touches happens to a lot of great teams, Yao's touches situation is just a bit more extreme than those guys. It's weird how when the team gets some success, they often go away from what they are doing right in the first place.

that's a good point. Shaq has also publicly called out his teammates for not getting him enough touches int he past.

[daRox]

Its funny, first Francis and Mobley were blamed, now we have a team of unquestionable better passing ability and his teamates still get blamed. Yao has got to learn to hold his position in the paint better. period

The swat that we have now are better passers, agree?

We win more games, agree?

So you think francis/mobley were not to blame? I think they're terrific basketball players and I always loved and appreciated what they did for the team, but you can't argue that they were horrible entry passers.

[pgabriel]

The swat that we have now are better passers, agree?

We win more games, agree?

So you think francis/mobley were not to blame? I think they're terrific basketball players and I always loved and appreciated what they did for the team, but you can't argue that they were horrible entry passers.

I’m not making an argument about Francis or Mobley. I’m just saying that the main problem lies with Yao if this continues to be an issue. I’ve never heard of this being an issue with a big man. A lot of basketball people talk about Horry’s passing ability to the post but what makes Horry such a good entry passer is his shooting ability. It spaces the floor. Hakeem never had an issue getting the ball. The problem was he never played with a good shooting team until Vernon Horry and Kenny.

Does Indiana have better passers than the Rockets? Probably not. But getting the ball to Jermaine O’Neal has never been an issue. I have never heard this being an issue with any big man I’ve ever seen play. Yao just has to learn how to gain leverage on opposing players.

[rocketsregle]

I’m not making an argument about Francis or Mobley. I’m just saying that the main problem lies with Yao if this continues to be an issue. I’ve never heard of this being an issue with a big man. A lot of basketball people talk about Horry’s passing ability to the post but what makes Horry such a good entry passer is his shooting ability. It spaces the floor. Hakeem never had an issue getting the ball. The problem was he never played with a good shooting team until Vernon Horry and Kenny.

Does Indiana have better passers than the Rockets? Probably not. But getting the ball to Jermaine O’Neal has never been an issue. I have never heard this being an issue with any big man I’ve ever seen play. Yao just has to learn how to gain leverage on opposing players.

I can think of two big men that have had problems: Duncan in the Finals that Popovich had to call out his team on it and Shaq.

During the preseason I saw a number of times where both Yao and Stromile had defenders on their back and where passed up for whatever reason. How much leverage do you want? ... the defender is already pinned behind them.

[pgabriel]

I can think of two big men that have had problems: Duncan in the Finals that Popovich had to call out his team on it and Shaq.

During the preseason I saw a number of times where both Yao and Stromile had defenders on their back and where passed up for whatever reason. How much leverage do you want? ... the defender is already pinned behind them.


But the problem with Yao isn't just getting position its holding it. I think Holding it is the main problem. Every pass can't get there as soon as he gains the advantage. He has to give his teamates time to find him. I don't think its a physical issue as much as it is about him being patient.

[noize]

I’m not making an argument about Francis or Mobley. I’m just saying that the main problem lies with Yao if this continues to be an issue. I’ve never heard of this being an issue with a big man. A lot of basketball people talk about Horry’s passing ability to the post but what makes Horry such a good entry passer is his shooting ability. It spaces the floor. Hakeem never had an issue getting the ball. The problem was he never played with a good shooting team until Vernon Horry and Kenny.

Does Indiana have better passers than the Rockets? Probably not. But getting the ball to Jermaine O’Neal has never been an issue. I have never heard this being an issue with any big man I’ve ever seen play. Yao just has to learn how to gain leverage on opposing players.

Did you read my post?

"This happends to Shaq frequently in Miami, so much so that he publically called out his team mates a couple of times for not giving him the ball. Yao does call for the ball most of the time by raising his arms when he gets position. He's freakin 7 foot 5 tree trunk out there, he doesn't need to shout to gets the guards attention unless your're blind or dazed. The coach and players have already admitted what the problems are and they just needed to find a solution for it. There's nothing more needed to be said. If you have been paying any attention to the pre-season at all, Yao has gotten good position all game with good stats, except for the last game where the guards just jack up shots after shots when they had a 22 point lead as stated in that article. As for Duncan, he sometimes goes for long streches without the ball, more so then you think, but nobody cares since he has such good players to make up for his lack of touches.It seems like most people are satisfied with Yao assertiveness and his improvements through out the pre-season games to get enough praises from the media including Tim Legner and CBS sportsline."

I tihnk he could hold his position just fine, its just that when he's in good position the guards couldn't get him the ball for whatever reason which forces Yao to re-establish his position again to avoid the 3 sec violation, and by that time the guards have already started to look somewhere else for shots, or shoot the ball themselves. No one here is at faults, its just hard in general to dump the ball into a low post player of Yao's size who doesn't have the best mobility/balance compared to Jermaine Oneal or even Duncan.

[fa7999]

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20051031/Img227350729.jpg

[declan32001]

But the problem with Yao isn't just getting position its holding it. I think Holding it is the main problem.

This gets brought up here occasionally and it's a complete myth. The first half of Yao's rookie season it was a huge problem, but it hasn't been a problem at all for over two years. That's why on every national telecast there's usually a sequence of 4 or 5 possessions when Yao is shown to be in position and he isn't thrown the ball and the announcers just shake there heads.

Besides, in this article JVG flatly says we're not looking for him enough and that's the main problem. Alston's quote should be the team mantra: "it's not on Yao, it's on me".

[KeepKenny]

Yao has picked up like 10 3-second violations in the preseason for posting up in the paint and not getting the ball. He didn't get the ball when he posted up Majic Lampe. He has gotten much better at holding position.

[hooroo]

From the article "guys just jacking up jumpers — disappointing." Van Gundy commenting on Yao's lack of shots pretty much sums it up

[jopatmc]

I’m not making an argument about Francis or Mobley. I’m just saying that the main problem lies with Yao if this continues to be an issue. I’ve never heard of this being an issue with a big man. A lot of basketball people talk about Horry’s passing ability to the post but what makes Horry such a good entry passer is his shooting ability. It spaces the floor. Hakeem never had an issue getting the ball. The problem was he never played with a good shooting team until Vernon Horry and Kenny.

Does Indiana have better passers than the Rockets? Probably not. But getting the ball to Jermaine O’Neal has never been an issue. I have never heard this being an issue with any big man I’ve ever seen play. Yao just has to learn how to gain leverage on opposing players.


Hakeem complained incessantly about not getting the ball from Sleepy Floyd on down to Sam I am.

[declan32001]

Hakeem complained incessantly about not getting the ball from Sleepy Floyd on down to Sam I am.

And by the time Cassell got here Dream was already getting the ball about 80% of the time. :D

[jmwilliamson]

[url]Norris on inactive list
The Rockets decided on their roster for Wednesday's opener, placing guard Moochie Norris, injured guard Bob Sura and forward Dion Glover on the inactive list.

Norris played in four preseason games, averaging 3.8 points on 50-percent shooting and 2.3 assists.


A moment of silence for Moochie. This marks the beginning of the end for his career. If he doesn't get on the floor this season, he certainly will not find another NBA contract when the season is over. I, for one, feel no pity for him. Must be nice to be so bad at what you do and still manage to make 20 million dollars over the course of your contract.

[real_egal]

It's pretty funny, bunch of so excited Rockets "fans" already started blame game, even before the first game in the season, with all the new exciting additions. Can't you guys just watch a couple of games at first?

[caffreys_irish_ale]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1084176/19_28264.jpg

[RocketForever]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1084176/19_28264.jpg

So he was only 7'4" back then?