610: Clemens' Decision on Next Year (decided but not announced)

[Rileydog]

from www.sportsradio610.com

". Roger Clemens said yesterday that he's made a decision regarding his playing future, but the Rocket is not ready to reveal what his decision is."


Given the importance of this issue, please post developments and info here. I'm guessing that he will retire. He got us to the WS; his body is breaking down; he lost his mom; the timing of the decision makes it fairly clear to me. He's done. Thanks Roger!

[Groogrux]

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if he came back.

[DaDakota]

Wow,

I think the other way....

He is still pitching well, has a good deal with the Astros, and may want to play a bit more......

I would think that if he was truly done, he would just announce it.

This sounds like he wants to play, but needs to negotiate a deal.

DD

[Groogrux]

This sounds like he wants to play, but needs to negotiate a deal.

That's a very good point. I just think he saw how he pitched towards the end of the year (September ERA of 5.40) and may think that he's risking going out with an injury or a subpar year by his standards.

[The Real Shady]

I know this would never happen, but the Astros should try to get Clemens to play for a half season. Pay him $10 million for the year and tell him to get ready to come back after the all-star break for the stretch run. That way we could have Roger Clemens at full strengh come playoff time.

[The Cat]

I'd be absolutely shocked if he retires.

[Svpernaut]

I'd be absolutely shocked if he retires.

As would I. He loves the game, has all the freedom in the world and still performs better then 95% of the pitchers in the league... It will all just come down to how much he loves the game, is another season worth all of the hard work he has to put into preparing for a season? He's Roger freaking Clemens, so I don't think he would know how to react NOT having to prepare for a season.

[Rocket River]

QUESTION: How much Jack do you give him?

I think 18 Million again is out of the question

Rocket River
Unca Drayton ain't hearing it

[Joshaaronb]

He got us to the World Series and had a 1.97 era, best in the Majors, the union doens't like when guys go for less than they are worth. I suspect his people will ask for $20 mil.

[Joshaaronb]

I say forget Clemens, go sign another pitching stud for 10 -12 mil. and do a sign and trade with Atlanta for Forcal. I figure he'll go for 8 mil.

[MR. MEOWGI]

He now has torn muscles in his back. I don't think he will play again.

[russian88]

I say sign a.j burnett and forget clemens, but uncle drayton knows Rocket's ability of putting people in the seats. He will probably return, but I hope not.

[Trader_Jorge]

The only thing that may keep him playing is his son Koby, but frankly, Koby is 3-4 years away from the majors even if he performs well in minor league ball.

With the team's budget issues going into this offseason, it's going to be hard to afford him and everyone else (unless Drayton changes the budget).

[candlegreen]

I say sign a.j burnett and forget clemens, but uncle drayton knows Rocket's ability of putting people in the seats. He will probably return, but I hope not.

I like the idea of signing a young pitcher in Burnett, although he's had injury problems of his own in the past. (but to his credit, he was healthy last year)

The rule was if we didn't sign by a certain date, that we can't negotiate a contract until May 1st, correct? Part of me is hoping that Roger would hold off on the contract, but let the Astros management know that he needs a little rehabbing time, and come back strong midseason. That way, he has every excuse to take lesser money and he can spend some time with his family away from the game. He also would not curl off towards the end of the season as he did seasons past. From what I hear of Roger, he will probably stay in shape. Of course, these are only ideas that would work if Roger would take that kind of leniency towards the Astros.

On the other hand, if Roger has decided already, I'm sure he wouldn't hold out on the Astros. Therefore, I would think that he'll be back.

[Groogrux]

With the team's budget issues going into this offseason, it's going to be hard to afford him and everyone else (unless Drayton changes the budget).

If Clemens wants to comeback, Drayton will sign him.

[Austin70]

I think Roger is not going to come back, his body is telling him no.

[Deckard]

He now has torn muscles in his back. I don't think he will play again.
Link? That sounds bad. (I've had them myself!)

[xiki]

My hope is that Rocket returns -- at the ASG. Less time for his ancient body to break down. Great time for mid season lift to team. Half the salary thus a few mil for Uncle Drayton to get Dunn or Giles or Furcal or ???

[The Real Shady]

I think Roger is not going to come back, his body is telling him no.

His body is telling him no, but his mind is telling him yes.
I don't see nothing wrong with playing one more year.

[Uprising]

I know this would never happen, but the Astros should try to get Clemens to play for a half season. Pay him $10 million for the year and tell him to get ready to come back after the all-star break for the stretch run. That way we could have Roger Clemens at full strengh come playoff time.


That would be awesome if it were to happen.

But I don't see him coming back. His body can't take baseball anymore. This was extremely quick of a decision. We got swept, couldn't of felt good as a player. To come up with a decision so quickly, I think that's that and he's done.

[thacabbage]

It's fairly obvious to me that he's not coming back given the proximity of this decision to the World Series. I mean, the season hasn't even been over for a week yet! Getting to the World Series is emotionally draining, not to mention the fact that his hamstring is probably still bothering him. If he was going to come back, he would have allowed some time to distance himself from all of this emotionally. I would be shocked if he is back.

[hoopstar]

I say forget Clemens, go sign another pitching stud for 10 -12 mil. and do a sign and trade with Atlanta for Forcal. I figure he'll go for 8 mil.


why would we need to do a sign and trade? this is not the nba

[nWo34Life]

There's has to be a drop in his contract in order to get that big bat on this team. $18 mil again would kill us.

[HayesStreet]

The half season suggestion is the best. I have advocated that myself. Saves his energy/body. Gets more offseason to recover. Available in midseason form (this year) which was rocking.

[lalala902102001]

If Roger were to come back, he would not make the decision so quickly when he still has trouble walking. I think he's done. This is it.

[The Cat]

I'm more convinced that he's coming back given the proximity of his decision to the World Series. He pitched a great season where he was better than almost every pitcher in the game. He's a great competitor who wouldn't want to go out with his last start a 2-inning injury-shortened and ineffective start in the World Series. He loves his city and wants to bring them a world championship, and after coming so close and pitching so well for most of the season, I'd be stunned if he doesn't want to give it another go.

He now has torn muscles in his back. I don't think he will play again.

Says who?

[Mr. Clutch]

I'm more convinced that he's coming back given the proximity of his decision to the World Series. He pitched a great season where he was better than almost every pitcher in the game. He's a great competitor who wouldn't want to go out with his last start a 2-inning injury-shortened and ineffective start in the World Series. He loves his city and wants to bring them a world championship, and after coming so close and pitching so well for most of the season, I'd be stunned if he doesn't want to give it another go.





That would be awesome. Having a Clemens-Pettite-Oswalt rotation would be great. And then if we add a bat on top of it, we'll be set for a fun season.

[MR. MEOWGI]

Link? That sounds bad. (I've had them myself!)

Mrs. Clemens spilled it on 93.7 this morning. She said he has "tears in his back". I think she then realized she wasn't supposed to say that. I was in the shower though so I might of misheard it, but I'm pretty sure...

[Mr. Mooch]

While no one can say for sure, I'll say this: he loves the game, and not just the playing aspect. He loves the history; he is one of the most professional when it comes to baseball.

So rewind to last year with Beltran: Mr. Asshole (Boras) decided to play with Houston when there was no intention of returning to the Astros (you can argue that Beltran said he liked Houston, but it ain't a valid argument. The money was there and he left).

Considering how risking the chances of losing a possible solid offseason FA last year by dealing with Beltran's people hurt the Astros (and luckily ended up for the better), why in the world would Clemens pull the same sh*t if Houston has a chance at getting another arm (ex: Burnett)?!?!

Of course if he does decide to retire, he will announce it sooner rather than later. I fully expect him to be back if he "made a decision" and won't reveal it.

Besides, the national media WANTS him back (last year no one thought he would come back and now you've got ESPN saying he's a solid offseason free agent possibility).

Personally, I think the bigger issue and the deciding factor for Clemens in the end will be Pettitte: it's almost like they compete with each other; they make each other better. They are by far the best duo in baseball right now.

Plus this is Andy's contract year; It's too early to speculate, but I would think this may be his last with Houston. With the way things could end up with Clemens and knowing he still has feelings and loyalty for Steinbrenner, I'd be surprised if Pettitte is wearing anything but a Yankees uniform in '07.

Hopefully Purpura extends his contract midyear thought through retirement and he stays put. :D

[candlegreen]

hopefully, it's "wear and tear".... At any rate, another reason I don't see Clemens retiring just yet is the fact that Randy Johnson is getting closer and closer to his #2 strikeout record. Either way, Clemens should say something soon and has plenty of time to rethink retirement if the Astros are in the midst of it midseason.

[nycrocket]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=schwarz_alan&id=2206545 (http://)

This mentions Clemens in the World Baseball Classic in March. If he pitches there you would think he'd pitch next year. I think he retires though.

[tigermission1]

Good, he's done, now we can concentrate on the future.

[dskillz]

I say he retires. I would love to have AJ here. Plus, without Roger's contract, we would be able to retain our arbitration-eligible players and possibly get a bat. We need to get another SS for sure.

[Roxfan73]

Read this thread from one of the AstrosDaily.com linked forums:

Link (http://p078.ezboard.com/fevilwontwinfrm3.showMessage?topicID=5206.topic)

Looks like Clemens is going to pitch next year, but he won't announce it for a while (according to what Drayton said on Fox 26). I have no problem with the lack of a public announcement as long as Purp and Drayton know whats up going into the winter meetings.

[The Real Shady]

Read this thread from one of the AstrosDaily.com linked forums:

Link (http://p078.ezboard.com/fevilwontwinfrm3.showMessage?topicID=5206.topic)

Looks like Clemens is going to pitch next year, but he won't announce it for a while (according to what Drayton said on Fox 26). I have no problem with the lack of a public announcement as long as Purp and Drayton know whats up going into the winter meetings.

Cool. I hope that site is right.

[NJRocket]

I think he comes back IF, and only if, management tells him that they are dedicated to adding a bat or 2. If he announces he is coming back, that would tell me that Purp/Drayton gave Roger their word that they would dedicate this offseason to adding some offense.

If he retires, it could mean that they wouldn't make that promise...or simply he just doesn't think his body can go thru another year of the grind.

As for Andy...I think he will be here for the long haul. I think he signs another 3 yr deal when this one is done.

[Toast]

I think he comes back.

He was in the running for yet ANOTHER Cy Young award last year. I honestly think one of the major reasons (besides lack of run support) he didn't take it was he didn't outshine the rest of our staff - because they were all hot this last season.

He's won his world series ring(s). So what is there left to prove? For one, I think he really feels team unity with these Astros, so he wants to help them succeed as much as he can. But for another, individual accolates. Seriously, as long as Randy Johnson's still pitching, Roger's in danger of losing his claim on having the 2nd most strikeouts in league history. If Roger can have another season like last year, do people start considering him the "best starting pitcher of all time?" In 50 years, do pitchers start battling it out for the Roger Clemens award?

[emjohn]

I want him back. Clemens-Pettite-Oswalt-Backe as a unit >>>>> Pettite-Oswalt-Backe + Furcal. Not even close. In all liklihood, we should go into this thinking it's our last shot at a title with this pitching rotation. Bite the bullet, sign a RBI machine (more along the lines of replacing Kent rather than an Adam Dunn), and lose money while rolling the dice for a title.

Evan

[PhiSlammaJamma]

This is a hard one to figure out. I have no idea what the decision is.

The delayed announcement would lead to me to believe it will be a press conference retirement. Why else would it be delayed. An annoucement to come back would not need to be delayed in my opinion. It would simply be noted.

All the injuries are indicative of how Nolan went out. You can still be dominant, but eventually the body tells you to screw that. It won't hold out. I'm sure Clemens is seeing many parallels to Nolan Ryan's career.

Everythintg here points to etirement in my opinion, except one thing, love of the game and dedication to his mother. No one knows what he said to her. But whatever it was, you can bet that is stronger than any other factor. Maybe finishing this season was the end of that commitment in his mind. Maybe not.

The main reason to retire was for her to see him in HOF, but that's out of the equation now and that's what makes it so hard to predict what he'll do.

[thacabbage]

If you were going to come back, you wouldn't make the decision while you still could barely walk. You would atleast give it some time. I'm not even a player (well duh) and I myself am mentally exhausted from just watching those games. I myself need time for next season! Now imagine if you're a pitcher with an injury.

I don't think he's back. We'll see though.

[Trader_Jorge]

If Clemens wants to comeback, Drayton will sign him.

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.

[Groogrux]

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

Of course, what you're missing is that it's highly doubtful that Clemens will comeback unless he believes that something is done to address the offense. Basically, I believe that if Clemens wants to comeback, he will only do so if the offense is improved, and Drayton will do whatever it takes to have another season of Roger and his near-guarantee sell-outs.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.

And I know how happy that made you. You couldn't even enjoy the historic run made by our outstanding team. You instead spent your time bitching that we didn't add Randy Winn or Larry Bigbie. By the way, please find one quote from me where I said we did not need a bat. Thanks in advance.

[Mr. Clutch]

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.

That's true of any team. Our salary was about 12th in the league, not much lower than the Cardinals who everyone says pays their players well.

[Drewdog]

He's done.

[Rocket Fan]

mr mooch.. why do you think Andy would leave?

Why would he have signed here if he wasn't gonig to retire here at home? If he was so loyal to NY he'd have stayed there .. I would think

or i hope..

[Major]

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.

Clemens actually brings in quite a bit of revenue for the team, so it's not at all a zero-sum game. Spending on Clemens costs less than spending an equal amount on another player.

As for adding a bat. Any bat that was ever being discussed was in LF. That would have put either Burke or Lamb on the bench (or in Burke's case, off the roster) - these were our 2nd and 3rd best hitters in the playoffs, both with OPSes over 0.900. It is unlikely that any added bat would have performed at that level, and most likely than not, it would have reduced the overall performance of the team. Unless you wanted to replace Ensberg during the season, of course.

[halfbreed]

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.

Ahh...the Astros lose in the World Series and a certain someone pops out of oblivion to bash them. :D

[NJRocket]

mr mooch.. why do you think Andy would leave?

Why would he have signed here if he wasn't gonig to retire here at home? If he was so loyal to NY he'd have stayed there .. I would think

or i hope..


I dont think Andy will leave. However, him leaving NY was more due to NY not trusting his elbow than Andy not wanting to be there.....and they were right...however, i dont think they could have ever imagined that he would come back to be as good as he was after the surgery. Lucky us!

[The Cat]

This is a hard one to figure out. I have no idea what the decision is.

The delayed announcement would lead to me to believe it will be a press conference retirement. Why else would it be delayed. An annoucement to come back would not need to be delayed in my opinion. It would simply be noted.

If anything, it's the opposite. Why delay retiring? It's not like he can't have a press conference whenever he wants. He's Roger f'n Clemens, he can announce he's retiring at 4:26 a.m. and every member of the media will be there and we'll all be glued to our televisions. An announcement to come back would need to be delayed because he wants to be able to negotiate the highest possible price for himself from Drayton McLane.

If you were going to come back, you wouldn't make the decision while you still could barely walk. You would atleast give it some time. I'm not even a player (well duh) and I myself am mentally exhausted from just watching those games. I myself need time for next season! Now imagine if you're a pitcher with an injury.

I don't think he's back. We'll see though.

You're a great poster cabbage and I respect your opinions, but I'm the complete opposite of you on this. Obviously I'm not a player either, but I still have that sour taste in my mouth, and I'm ready for next season to begin tonight... I'm ready for more baseball. I'm ready to prove we can make it one more step. His goal was to bring his hometown a world championship, and after coming so close, I don't think he's going to give up on a championship-caliber team. Especially with his competitive fire... can any of you seriously imagine him walking out on the game after a mediocre postseason and a 2-inning start in the World Series?

I also think the "can barely walk" is a little exaggerated too... in the interview last night on Fox (see the AD link), he said he was a little "hurt and sore" but certainly didn't make reference to anything that extreme. He was also ready and prepared to start Game 5 on his regular four days rest.

[torque]

Duh. What you are conveniently omitting is that signing Clemens precludes the Astros from adding a bat unless Drayton decides to spend some of that World Series cash that came in the door. It's a zero sum game. What you give Clemens, you take away from building a championship caliber offensive team. Of course, if Drayton decides to increase the budget, then we could do both. That's a big if.

You think we could have used a bat in the WS? In case you missed it, we didn't score in the last 15 innings.
In case you missed it, we wouldn't have made the world series without Roger.

[rrj_gamz]

There's has to be a drop in his contract in order to get that big bat on this team. $18 mil again would kill us.

Agreed...I love the guy and what he did, but honestly, if he couldn't go, he wouldn't...Although, tons of money is hard to stay away from...

[Nick]

I guess I don't really have a rooting interest in this one way or the other... mainly because I know its Clemens decision, and he's given all he can to this ballclub in the last two years... thus, I wouldn't be too torn up if he decided to leave.

Also, I know that while it may seem bleak if he were to leave, and we couldn't get a capable replacement... I do know that the current "core" of young players we have are likely to be here for long enough to not make it a "world series" or bust type attitude that teams like the Cardinals had this year, and the Yankees have every year.

Also, I have faith in the farm system... namely, Jason Hirsch (a 6'9 righty who was dominant at AA this year), and Troy Patton (who will likely get promoted to AA sometime next year... and after that, he's only a phone call away from the big leagues).

[Rule0001]

you heard it here first

a 10 year contract worth 200 million

[JunkyardDwg]

I guess I don't really have a rooting interest in this one way or the other... mainly because I know its Clemens decision, and he's given all he can to this ballclub in the last two years... thus, I wouldn't be too torn up if he decided to leave.

Also, I know that while it may seem bleak if he were to leave, and we couldn't get a capable replacement... I do know that the current "core" of young players we have are likely to be here for long enough to not make it a "world series" or bust type attitude that teams like the Cardinals had this year, and the Yankees have every year.

Also, I have faith in the farm system... namely, Jason Hirsch (a 6'9 righty who was dominant at AA this year), and Troy Patton (who will likely get promoted to AA sometime next year... and after that, he's only a phone call away from the big leagues).


04's was our WS or bust year with so many veterans and soon-to-be free agents. This year was essentially billed as a rebuilding year of sorts with all the young guys on the roster. The fact that the team made it to the WS with these young guys makes the future of this club even brighter. You keep that young core of Oswalt, Lidge, Qualls, Burke, Willy, Backe, Berkman and Everett (pending his bat) and surround them w/ solid veterans like Pettite, Wheeler, Bidge, Palmeiro and Viz, then our future will continue to look bright. There are some key question marks (Clemens and Bagwell) but the situation definitely isn't as bleak as it was last year.

[The Ming Dynasty]

The job was not complete! We were 10 runs away from wining the World Series (we lost all four games by a total of six runs). As close as we got and as much as our bats seemed to be frozed in the WS, I would absolutely love another chance, hopefully Roger feels the same way.

[Nick]

The job was not complete! We were 10 runs away from wining the World Series (we lost all four games by a total of six runs). As close as we got and as much as our bats seemed to be frozed in the WS, I would absolutely love another chance, hopefully Roger feels the same way.

I know we were so close to it all last year... but there's no guarantee that re-tooling, re-building, and expanding the payroll will get us back to the WS next year... or even the year after that.

A big payroll and roster depth puts you in a great position to MAKE the playoffs... but once you get there, you need to have clutch performances, no injuries, and a little luck to actually win series and get to the WS.

On paper, the Cardinals had much more depth, a better lineup, and good enough pitching to almost guarantee a World Series appearnce... they even beat us 11 out of the 16 regular season games. But, in the playoffs, a few bounces go our way, a few HR's find the seats, and all of a sudden we beat them 4 out of 6 games (and probably should have won 5 out of 6). Likewise, the Yankees had a number of opportunities to win their series against the Angels... but their best/highest paid player didn't show up at all. A guy can hit 50 HR's over 162 games... but it is possible to slump for 2 weeks and be virtually worthless come playoff time.

The best this team can do is hang on to the young guys, continue to look to add key role players (not neccesarily superstars) via free agency, and just hope that the dominos line up again like they did this year. The best part about this team is that the majority of the everyday guys are pretty young... and the farm system is not entirely depleted (and there could be a couple of GEMS in there).

[juicystream]

I know this would never happen, but the Astros should try to get Clemens to play for a half season. Pay him $10 million for the year and tell him to get ready to come back after the all-star break for the stretch run. That way we could have Roger Clemens at full strengh come playoff time.

Wow! My dad said the exact same thing when I was at home a couple of weeks ago.

[Roxfan73]

Anybody watch the ABC 13 Sports segment today? Supposedly Bob Allen had a private talk with Rocket and confirmed that Clemens has 3 tears in his back and that he will not be able to come back until the 2nd half of 06.

[Surfguy]

How did we go from hamstring injury to tears in the back?

I don't think he comes back, either. There's just no way he would make such a quick decision on this subject if it weren't bad news.

Edit: Hmm...after reading the other link...it sounds more promising then I originally thought. He had to have loved the last season with Pettitte and our club regardless of the injuries. There's hope yet. I would be very surprised if he only came back for the second half, though.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I can't be the only one who thought that was tears, not tears. And I just figured it out. It makes a lot more sense now.

[Aceshigh7]

Why do so many people want A.J Burnett here? He's young. So what? He's not that good. He was healthy last year for a change and the Stros lit his ass up.

Anyone who wants Clemens to retire so we can get Burnett is a moron.

[DaDakota]

Ace,

Imagine if AJ Burnet got to play one season with Roger Clemens? I can already see a bit of Roger rubbing off on Backe.......

Clemens has so much respect from everyone, and young players need someone to look up to.

AJ and Roger would be NAILS....we may not even need a bat.

:)

[jopatmc]

2 times the man, half a season